Sunday, July 15, 2007

Argentina v Brazil: The big final. Match coverage


Yes! I made it again!


I'm here, sitting in the same place I've been for all of the Argentina matches in this Copa America.


The national anthems of Argentina and Brazil are about to the played.


And I don't know, this time, if I'll be able to type during the match.


VAMOS ARGENTINA! I BEG YOU!

164 comments:

saurabh said...

kick off is just round the corner.
This is the big 1. Two of the biggest bulls of South American football are ready to lock horns. I have no words to describe the excitement.
Any pre match comments Seb???

Seba said...

Match started.

Comments?

I don't remember a match that meant more than this one to me.

Seba said...

Argentina with the ball. Brazil happy to wait and try to counter-attack.

Seba said...

Who's out there with Saurabh and me?

Seba said...

Brazil 1-0

FUCKING HELL!

4 minutes...

Julio BAPTISTA with a great goal.

Rio said...

fucking knew bad thing about to happen when mascher missed that tackle

saurabh said...

DAmn!!!!
Wasnt impressed by the marking on Baptista in the box

Rio said...

2 fullbacks pushing up when we don't have 2 holding mids to screen was a bad idea. roman told heinze to push, and zanetti started out high on other side.

i want to see some changes here. at least let veron stay more defensively, and open up the right side a bit.

saurabh said...

Ayala was caught napping just like he was in the Semi final as pointed out by John. Should have closed Baptists down

Seba said...

This was my fear.

Now it's going to be very tough to break them.

If we were the ones who scored first, then it would have been easier to establish our best game and punished them with the spaces that they would have opened at the back.

Rio said...

FUCK, too much CCW spin on that ball

Seba said...

RIQUELME hits the post!

JESUS!

Great pass by VERON who headed the ball straight to ROMAN.

Unlucky!

Rio said...

FUCK!!!!!!!

saurabh said...

anyways done is done there is plenty of time to bounce back and smack a flurry of goals against Brazil.
I have no second thoughts this Argentinian team can score and kill this game. wooh!! what a roocket from Riquleme!!!
Keep going lads thats like the Argentina we know n love!!

saurabh said...

did not know crespo was fit and on the bench

Rio said...

KILL THEM!

Seba said...

Free kick for us. 10 meters outside the box.

RIQUELME will hang it in the box. Out for a corner.

saurabh said...

Free kick come on Roman!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

hahahhahahaha

Rio said...

we gotta keep the ball on the ground. these brazilian will not only win the headers, they'll hurt our players

Rio said...

matter of time. keep defense low

Seba said...

ROBINHO is hurt. Still playing but he felt it.

MESSI with a good run. Another corner for us.

Nothing happened.

Seba said...

PATO complicated a simple shot.

Corner kick.

Don't do that, PATO! Please!

saurabh said...

brazil have had the measure of the aerial balls so far

Seba said...

ZANETTI saves almost on the line.

Seba said...

Dubious offside call on Carlitos when he was free towards DONI.

saurabh said...

Zanetti's God!!
had my heart in my mouth

Rio said...

feels like goal coming up

Rio said...

what a tackle by milito, holy shit

Seba said...

I'm hating this game.

Rio said...

it's getting there

Seba said...

ELANO injured. Daniel ALVES warming up.

Rio said...

disrupting our rhythm

Seba said...

We have a corner kick from the right.

RIQUELME will take it after the substitution.

Daniel ALVES in for ELANO.

Seba said...

Superb DONI to save from RIQUELME.

Rio said...

1 handed save

Rio said...

yellow

Seba said...

ZANETTI suffers a foul by ALEX, who gets a yellow card.

We should try and look for him.

Seba said...

This game is a fucking nightmare.

We can't suffer that much from counterattacks.

It's just terrifying.

We can't defend.

Seba said...

What the fuck, AYALA????

The ball was easily going to PATO's hands...

Fuck...2-0 down.

Nightmare...

Anonymous said...

My father was right, Argentines are just destined for heart ache since 1990 wc. I just do not know what to say or do now.

,Jack

Asil said...

Something wrong with our defensive mids. Esp Cambiasso

Seba said...

I'm worst, Jack.

I'm living in Brazil.

I can hear my neighbours celebrating...and I don't even want to think about going to work tomorrow...

Rio said...

should i hope us lose to prove that i was right, or wish for a come back?

Seba said...

Our back four is terrible.

That long pass to BAPTISTA in the first goal should have never complicated things to the point of conceeding.

Then AYALA did all the work for Brazil...

Are we coursed, or something?

Seba said...

Rio...right when? When you said we were going to score any time soon?

Anonymous said...

Seba, I have sick days I can use. I just can not understand why Argentina can not beat this team? How are we ever going to live this down? 2nd team of brasil beats Argentina top notch team? Take out Camb and bring in Aimar. That is all I can say.

Rio said...

no, it's the midfield screen not sufficient. that's why milito is constantly going up to fill DM spot.

2 DM would of done the trick. the sequence of pressure on brazil showed that we really don't need 5:5 to score. and look at what they're doing now, dropping both veron and cambiasso to dm. These 2 neither has the tackle of gago, so we're forced to use 2 + mascher now. 3:7 when losing 2 goals, it's over.

Anonymous said...

Argentina is a 2nd half team and lets see what they can do. Why cant we beat Brasil in a final? Can somebody tell me that?

Rio said...

drop veron put on gago. put on aimar for cambiasso then we've got a little chance. I mean, it's not unheard of to come back from 2-0 when offensive teams play each other.

Seba said...

There's no justice in this World.

Anonymous said...

BRZ is just going to sit back and counter attack. I said from the start anything less then the title is a failure, I can care less how great they played in the last few games, they are playing like SHIT right now, just SHIT!. If Argentina was down 1-0 then I would be like ok. They seem to CHOKE. I am more hurt then upset.

,Jack

Rio said...

then we'll make the biggest comeback in the history of international final!

Asil said...

I think it's the curse of Ayala, since 1998. There's something not right about him

Seba said...

The bad thing is that they are not even playing great football.

They are a so-so team Today.

That's what's really killing me...

I just don't see how can we turn this game around.

We needed to avoid conceeding the first goal at all cost...and our mission failed within 3 minutes.

Rio said...

even U-20 knew to use 4-2-3-1 against physical teams... WHY BASILE, WHYYYYYYY

Anonymous said...

Oh you mean when Dennis Bergkamp danced around him and scored that goal? God man. The hell is wrong with him, doesnt he know the way he flew into the box right now that would of been a OG.

Me Gusta El Futbol said...

Don't cry for me Argentinaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

I think I will agree with Rio. Drop Cambaiasso and get Gago. Strehgnthen the defensive midfield - ensure that we do not get 0-3 down and put in three goals. It is so simple. isn't it!

I cannot retain my sanity now.....getting up at 2.30 a.m to see the worst defensive display ever.

linda said...

It's mentality, isn't it. Brazil just go in believing they'll win. And something within our players goes in believing that they'll suffer.

But come on, there have been bigger come-backs than this. Let's see what Basile can do.

Gonzo said...

its over, didnt you see mascheranos face, its done. unless coco gives the best speech in soccer history, and these guys come out firing relentlesssly its over, and not only for argentina in this copa america, but for me as a soccer fan.

Asil said...

There's a lot of similar goals with Ayala's 1st goal. It's haunted

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

We need a target man in the box. I am seeing a repeat of September last year. There is no one to pounce on the odd lose balls in the Brazilian box that we are getting.

saurabh said...

talking about the 2nd half would we see aimar and crespo coming on?
To think of it the back 4 have been really disastrous but, there is still 45 minutes of football left and for Argentina it is still about getting that 1st goal quickly and not conceding any more. If that happens then we still have a chance

Anonymous said...

Seems to be a mental thing. That is all I can say. I have turned the tube off, and will just follow the game over here. When you are up the the score goes so slow, when you are down the time flys by.

Rio said...

now it's a mentality problem...


THIS IS A TACTICAL ERROR BY BASILE!
I've fucking said it, i won't repeat myself again. there will be enough critics to kill him.

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

Pray for the best....I have broken my self-enacted rule of not switching internet at late hours at home........Hope it is worth it.

Seba said...

Second half started.

No subs for us.

Seba said...

Brazilian commentators are already saying that Gilberto SILVA will lift the trophy instead of JUAN (since he is only captain of the team in the absence of Gilberto SILVA).

That's being arrogant a little bit over the edge.

There is no justice in this World.

Rio said...

they're about to put on 2 more holding mid and play turtle

Seba said...

Our players look to be completely tired.

Not hurrying up to take throw-ins...I'm losing my faith here.

Free-kick on the right.

Just 8 meters outside the box. RIQUELME will send it to the area.

Rio said...

another!

Gonzo said...

im sick of brazils time wasting, give him a red

Seba said...

We can't seem to win a single header.

Yellow card for DONI for time-wasting. And he goes on with his horrible acting...

Seba said...

Foul on Carlitos.

Another ball to the box. Will they win it like every one of the others?

Seba said...

Suicide.

ROBINHO was not offside.

We are doing EVERYTHING WRONG.

Seba said...

They time-waste ALL THE TIME!

Yellow card for GILBERTO.

Seba said...

Every action is a foul suffered by our players.

I've never seen Brazil fouling this much in a game before!

25 fouls by Brazil
11 by Argentina.

Seba said...

AYALA??? What did you do????

You gave away the ball instead of chesting it down. You were free inside their box after MESSI corner kick.

Seba said...

AIMAR coming in.

Seba said...

CAMBIASSO replaced by AIMAR.

saurabh said...

brazil have played a very physical game. 21 fouls!!
every time the ball goes to Roman a yellow shirt fouls him with a bad tackle

Gonzo said...

too little too late

Seba said...

We should have score there.

I think it was the first organized move we had all game.

gonzo said...

the first organized move and first time we didnt get a chainsaw in the face from some low life brazilian.

Seba said...

25 min. to go.

If we are lucky, we can take this to the penalty shoot-out. But we need to score fast.

LUCHO is coming in.

VERON off.

Rio said...

lucho

in the end basile wanted to show there's some limit to our depth and it wasn't entirely his foul that we lost...

fuck you basile!

Gonzo said...

VAMOS AIMAR! LA REP--A MADRE QUE TE PARIO!

Seba said...

The ref only gives the card to those who haven't seen it yet.

Julio BAPTISTA with a yellow now.

Seba said...

3-0

That's it.

I'm a dead man.

Rio said...

HURTS!

atleti said...

I feel sick to my stomach.

saurabh said...

we've lost it guys!!

Rio said...

U-20 game coming up

Seba said...

Brazil did to us, what we did to all the teams coming into this final.

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

September 2006 Redux...

No target man......and then suffering in counter attacks.

Seba said...

I don't know if I was prepared to lose this. You are never prepared for a loss.

But I'm sure I was not ready to lose 3-0.

Rio said...

calm down ppl.
we thought this team (player to coach to subs) is the peak of argentine football. we were wrong. it's time to rethink our strategy, seek fundemental changes. we still got time till olympics to revamp, and then plenty time till WC to get ready.

linda said...

That's true, Saurabh. I was reminded of the Confederations Cup final myself.

linda said...

Yeah, Rio's right, it's not the end of the world. It's clear that we do need a target man, and the defence needs work, but I don't think the team necessarily needs a revolution.

Rio said...

let's show some class, lose like grown ups!

Anonymous said...

That is all Brasil does, is counter attack. I just can not explain the the disappointment I have. How does Argentina lose to a B team of Brasil's like this? I think Brasil is always destined for victory. They were all but out of copa america in the last round and then uruguay misses a pk for the win, then brasil gk jumps of the line and no call with his save. Can we ever beat these guy's outside our own back yard? Can somebody tell me this?

Anonymous said...

It is a dark dark dark day for Argentina. I bet you our kids U-20 team is watching this and saying wow, I bet they are all disapointed. Watch them go out to Mexico as well.I think they will be too hurt to even think about playing.

,Jack

Rio said...

seba,
lucho, veron, ayala, zanetti, diego milito, crespo, pato these ppl are all going home. If we won this game they could probably get another shot at WC at least as subs...

but with this result... get your pictures of them when ya can, they're good as gone.

saurabh said...

i said it in one of my previous posts. this argentinian team is a juggernaut. They had played the best football of this tournament. Brazil were not even close.
but this would count for the final match. One of my worst fears came true when it mattered our beloved team fell well well short of what was expected of them. I still love this team and lets hope there will be justice to the potential of this young andd enormously talented team in 2010

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

It is inexplicable ....we knew what was expected of brazil and they knew what was expected of us. Dunga seemed to be prepared for us but we did not make any tactical arrangement for Brazil.

We ended up conceding a goal in the very first few minutes and then, were overrun in the midfield by a very physical team.

Why are all my favourite teams such bottlers. Indian cricket team has specialised in qualfying to finals and then, embarassing us. They have lost 14 out of 15 finals in last 8 years.

Seba said...

MESSI scores, flagged for offside.

Was it?

No replay....

Rio said...

lol, now take away our goal. like we cared

linda said...

Amen, Saurabh.

Rio, if we lose those players, who are we going to replace them with? There's no rightback with the class of Zanetti, and no target man who's as good as Crespo, for starters.

Seba said...

Vagner LOVE really close on scoring the fourth.

Anonymous said...

A few days back on Fox Soccer Ch, I was watching the news, it was after the Mexico game. The guy said, Wow introducing you the 2010 WC champs Argentina, they are just that good. I was like damn it shut up, I do not need to hear that. I think losing like does not hurt as much as 2004, HOWEVER what excuse is argentina going to have losing to the B team.

Anonymous said...

,jack!

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

It is sad that players like Ayala, Zannetti will go without a trophy. But we will have to work on replacements who may not be great right now but will grow as footballers.

Gonzalo Rodriguez, Zabaleta can grow as defenders. I still believe from what I have seen in La liga that we can work with Diego Milito as a No. 9 and though I have not seen him, Cavenaghi is reportedly very good.

saurabh said...

i totally agree linda Crespo to me is one of the best and underrated hitman's in the world of football.It would be very difficult to fill his shoes right away.
Almost had tears in my eyes when 1 of the commentators said that Argentina is still for him (and for me) the team of the tournament.

Soccer Mania said...

I think wht this game really shows is that with all this attractive football Argentina dont have the weapon to counter a physical game. Brazil, for the matter of fact, is the first team that plays physically and our players came second best in the physical aspect. Some retrospection needs to be done. But as a fan we shd be proud the way the team has played in this tournament. Lets remember the positive aspect

Anonymous said...

Ayala's goal was the back breaker, simple as that. You know somebody can do a million things right, but one major foul up, then thats it.This team needs to get it's act together. Now is Riqulme going to retire again? Argentina needs to beat Brasil outside of Argentina.

,Jack

Seba said...

They are full of praise for DUNGA.

They were killing him all these days.

No justice in this world.

Rio said...

o there will be right back replacement. there will be replacement for all of them.

there will be even replacement for LB - traditional bottleneck of argentine international football.

If you look at the U-20 team, you're looking @ at least handful of players going into SA WC. our next generation defense is going to make this current line look like ancient history. Bottinelli, Pinola, Gonzalo Rodriguez, Yacob, Banega, Fazio and the U20 captain just to name a few.

Rio said...

soccer mania is right. 4-3-1-2 is an obsolete strategy. there are only so few teams sticking with offensive football, and none of them had been successful in the past decade.

less and less team will play offensive or defensive in international football. we need to adjust our doctrines accordingly or we'll never see success.

saurabh said...

Seb how far is AC Milan's newly signed LB Leandro Grimi from thi argentinian team?

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

Well said, Saurabh and Linda. I really feel bad for Crespo. He had started off so well and looked very determined in the first two games. (or 110 minutes to be more accurate)

I am reminded of an article by Tim Vickery of BBC after the Confederations Cup where he averred that it is difficult to take on Brazil in a final as they are more used to playing big finals whereas Argentina take finals as a matter of life and death. The albicelestes, he wrote, need a really good final or at least a good solid start to settle down their nerves. This game seems to have vindicated him.

Anonymous said...

I have a question for you guys, how do you think our U-20 is going to take this, us as fans are taking it hard but how do you think our JR team is?Is it going to hurt them on the field?

linda said...

So we have hope. And I don't know about you guys, but even with this result, I'll still remember this team fondly, just as I still remember the WC06 squad fondly.

It's a victory for negative football today, which is something I despise, and how ironic that it's Brazil doing it. Not a good thing for the direction of football in general, this.

saurabh said...

The indian cricket team is no differnt Saurabh. It really hurts

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

Rio. I will defer to your astute tactical awareness - that is so evident from your writings.

But I hope Argentina is able to find a way of playing beautiful football while being able to match up with physical opponents.

For albicelestes have been a fresh breath of air in present times of defensive football. And if physical football is indeed going to always triumph over skilful passing football, then I will also join in to say there is no justice in football.

Seba said...

GRIMI is a terribly bad player. He is absolutely out of our national team radar.

Linda...I think you are right in every thing you said about the negative football and all that.

That's why it hurts even more.

Seba said...

I don't think it was a matter of Argentina not knowing how to cope with physical teams.

Colombia was even more physical.

It simply was a matter of everything happening to perfection for Brazil.

Early goal while they were sitting back and defending.

RIQUELME hit the post before the 9th minute.

DONI saved superbly again from RIQUELME.

Then the AYALA's killer own-goal.

And a second half suitable for their counter-attacks.

It has explanations. We don't feel that way, but it does have very simple explanations.

saurabh said...

well i would've taken a 3-0 victory for argentina with the roles being reversed. They could've played all the beautiful football and we could've been the more physical team with those ruthless tackles and fouls as long as we could win it. No one would've cared.

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

When does the U-20 match start? It is scheduled 1945 hours Ottawa but Canada seems to have a lot of time zones. So, I am a bit confused.Can someone please convert in into GMT.

It is 4.35 am here in India right now. I cannot even go back to sleep. So might as well watch that game. I hope this debacle does not affect the young ones.

Anonymous said...

The game starts in 35min or so.

Soccer Mania said...

Lets get a few things out

1. Copa America is no big event. Nothing to take away from Brazil but Copa is a firm secondary to WC Qualifiers. This is a precursor to the WC qualifiers. This should serve as a good lesson. In fact, Argentina had no answer when Germany played physically

2. This is the first time in the tournament Argentina are facing BIG guys. Obviously, they couldnt find their rhythm in the game and Brazil hit on the counter and scored. Credit to Brazil.

3. I still feel Basile should stick on with the current team and try to find a way to deal with these physical sides.

saurabh said...

Would we see Julio Cruz and Javier Saviola wearing an Argentinian jersey for the WC play-offs keeping in mind that Crespo may not be around for the 2010 WC.

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

Seba. I think you are right. Every move fell in place perfectly for Brazil.

But it does seem that between two teams of comparable skill, physical football seems to be more percentage.

A glimmer of hope is that when you defend well, you can play beautiful creative football upfront. If you are always going to to 0-1 down, I guess it becomes much more difficult with the entire opposition behind ball and with the mortal fear of losing out on counter-attacks.

Soccer Mania said...

Columbia for the matter troubled Argentina. Against Brazil, Brazil have got better technical players and luck was against Argentina. I honestly also feel that the finals had its toll on the players attitude - probably came out negatively. I would still support the current coach and would still love to see the team play a beautiful way and loose than win with athletes in the field

Anonymous said...

A few things were getting my nerves. One was Brasil and wasting time, and 2 the commentator kept on saying Luuuuuv. My phone has been off for a few hours now, did not want anybody bothering me. I am one of those fans I need to watch the game by myself or watch it with my father. My friends went to the gaucho grill out in Los Angeles. I turned back my phone on to see the havoc of text messages and vm I got, well my friend Maxx sent me a message a group of argentine chased out a handful of brasilian's out of the restaurant(I had a good laugh). It started off good, then had a talk with my friend after his text he said that the brasilian's were dancing and waiving their flags in a argentine place. Only a hanful of times I have gone and watched a argentina game@ a bar or some place like that, boy does it get heated.

,Jack!

Soccer Mania said...

linda: Brazil stopped playing attractive football since 1994 its nothing new. Some of their players more look like athletes than football players.

linda said...

Like a few of you guys, I still support Basile and have hope for this group of players.

As for Saviola, much as I love him he's not really cut out to be the target man, more another option in our endless collection of support strikers (Palacio, Tevez, Messi, Higuain, and so on).

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

Thanks Anonymous.

Saurabh, this season has just been a saga of botching things up. Indian cricket team (who of course, this time spared us the torment of losing in yet another final by exiting suitably early), Barcelona and now Argentina.

But I will not agree with you no one caring about anything but the results. Since the start of the Pekerman era, more and more neutrals are supporting Argentina. I remember that earlier most of acquaintances would not talk about anyone else but Brazil. But that has slowly changed, especially with 2006 World cup. And if it was only about results, Germany would have been as popular, if not more, as Brazil and Argentina.

linda said...

Saurabh B: I hear you on the Barcelona and Argentina thing. And now for me it's the Rugby World Cup, in which the All Blacks have an unfortunately similar tendency to bottle it, despite their fearsome reputation.

(Here in NZ we're still getting over the disappointment of losing the America's Cup as well. It's not been a good year sports-wise.)

Anonymous said...

Linda- I am very upset@Higuain, he has absolutely no nationalism. One he took a long time to decide to either play for Argentina or France. He has turned down many call up's from the U-20 teams, and also turned down to play in U-20 WC, I see it as envy of Gago, that Gago got called up for the natl team and he did not. He has to start scoring a lot of goals before I start saying that I am a fan of his. Forget about Palacio, I am a Boca man but no need for Palacio. Now my concern is what is going to happen to Riquelme? Is he going to retire or will be back, just a FYI he will be 31 for the next WC. Now are we still going to play Messi, Tevez together? It might work on small teams like Mexico and etc, but what if Argentina faces a dutch team or a team or the germans again? Who is going to the creative play maker, that magic and the flair? Is Messi up for that role? A lot of questions for us to find out.
,jack

Soccer Mania said...

Some people are comparing the Indian cricket team to the Argentine team. Please, for heaven sake dont insult the Albiceleste. They atleast have talent- proof of it is that they have won 4 out of the last 6 WYC while the BCCI XI finds it tough to get 15 good players.

Rio said...

higuain isn't our only hope

have you guys ever thought why our youth teams can win but at senior level we couldn't do it?

I think it's because our youth teams are more flexible and adaptable to changes. Senior side had been way too stubborn to use this 4-3-1-2 that might look good but dangerous in the back.

It's not just a formation thing, it's a mentality. That needs to change, everything need to change, or we'll never win!

Anonymous said...

Why are we talking about cricket? Just wondering?

,Jack

saurabh said...

to think of it many would agree that Liverpool were the better team on the night of the Champions League final but the fact remains that Milan went on to win 2-1. Yes it hurts to loose when you dominate the run of play/ play more attractive football but personally i feel that at the end of the day all that matters is results.
After that 6-0 drubbing of Serbia and Montenegro we all would agree that Argentina were the most attractive team to watch but the end result was that we were defeated in the quarters by the hosts.
If Brazil would have lost this final every one would have been after Dunga's case in brazil esp. also due to the fact that they lost to mexico in the opening game. But now since they have won, in spite of the fact that their football was rough and no where close to eye pleasing, no one in Brazil would care.

linda said...

Rio: interesting point about the youth teams. For example, if you look at the '05 WYC squad, they didn't necessarily play good football (a lot of rough defence and counter attack), but they won the trophy.

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

I will agree with you Soccer Mania. It was not a compasrison. Just to mention yet another (arguably the strongest in World of Sports)example of choking in a final.

Soccer Mania said...

Rio just feel sorry to disagree with you. In the youth, the physical aspect of the game is not really stark in contrast while in the senior side there is clear difference. I think that is a crucial difference.

Anyway cheer up guys remeber the Messi goal scored in the semis and the brilliant pass by Roman to set up Messi. And how abt that Roman header. Man, they have atleast entertained while I cannot tell about the same with Brazil.

Rio said...

here's a recent example

they started out 4-3-1-2 also. but when playing poland, a physical team that focuses on tight midfield and counter attack (just like brazil in a way), the U-20 team was willing to drop into 4-2-3-1, and they won with ease...

DT always play strategies to suit their players. But for argentine NT it's the other way around. We play players to suit our strategy.

That's why we sucked. we been doing it all wrong all along. I hated negative football since I was kid, but I just cannot understand why dropping into defense when necessary is simply ignored by the NT. And we've paid dearly on this stubbornness. how much more do we have to suffer to take this matter seriously?

Seba said...

Soccer Mania...I disagree in almost everything you're saying (don't take it personally. I'm furious, but not at you!).

You said:

1. Copa America is no big event. Nothing to take away from Brazil but Copa is a firm secondary to WC Qualifiers. This is a precursor to the WC qualifiers. This should serve as a good lesson. In fact, Argentina had no answer when Germany played physically

2. This is the first time in the tournament Argentina are facing BIG guys. Obviously, they couldnt find their rhythm in the game and Brazil hit on the counter and scored. Credit to Brazil.

3. I still feel Basile should stick on with the current team and try to find a way to deal with these physical sides.

I say:

1. Copa America IS a big tournament. Will always be. Is the continental trophy of the region in which we play. We took it seriously.
Brazil had the perfect excuse to lose it even from the start of the tournament. Unexperienced manager, no Kaká, Ronaldinho, Lucio, Ronaldo, etc., Argentina with the best players available...

2. I don't think you can call Brazil BIG GUYS. For the reasons stated before.

3. I agree we have problems against physical sides, but I don't think that alone was the problem today. Everything clicked for them and sometimes you can't beat a team that has everything going for them...

Seba said...

And let me add Brazil didn't play beautiful football even in 1994 when they won the World Cup.

Soccer Mania said...

Man wht i meant was that it has lost its prestige. The world cup qualifers take a firm front seat in comparison to the copa. Argentina didnt even send a proper side to the 2001 edition. While in the 2004 Brazil sent a second string side. BIG GUYS I meant BIG physically - compare their players physicality with Argentines. When was the last time a Romario sized forward donned the Selecao shirt ??Ans the last one was Romario!!!

Anonymous said...

Argentina did not play the beautiful game in 1990 and almost won it. Sometimes ugly football wins you titles. Hell look@ the Greeks on 2004, hell of a story but come on.

,Jack

Rio said...

seba.

regard your last sentence.

the point of having a star splashing team like this NT is so when you face a tough opponent, you can stand up to them and chance for victory.

that we failed to do today.
and that's the biggest failure of this entire copa campaign.

Basile will be fired, the pending AFA presidency revamp will take place. I just hope when the day comes we play more conservatively, our fans will still stand behind us.

Just remember, we tried for 20 years, and we failed.

Rio said...

thank you jack!

Rio said...

http://livefooty.doctor-serv.com/sun15.7/Argentina_Mexico.html

U20 started

Anonymous said...

Rio you really think Basile will be fired? Lets say he does, who do you think about geting Bielsa back? Or go after Bianchi that argentina has tried a few times. Yea two loses to Brasil and they equal up to 6-0 is not good for Basile. I like him, I think him and Messi have a good bond.

Jack!

Anonymous said...

Just wondering, where was Diego? I only saw him in the first game and that was all? Maybe he should of gone in and gave a power speach.

,Jack

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

great start to the U-20 game and two good saves from Mexican goalkeeper

Rio said...

ppl are singing ole ole ola

Saurabh Bhattacharjee said...

close save for us.

Seba said...

BASILE won't be fired.

Shouldn't be fired.

As for the fans supporting the team, I think the clear example is that the Copa America matches marked the highest numbers of audience in the history of Argentine television.

The people is right behind the team because they love to see how the play.

I don't think it is impossible to play attractive football and win matches and trophies. It is difficult, but it is not impossible. And we should try and do that.

Anonymous said...

no target man... no big striker... many air ball for two short striker... what's that damn... basile should use Milito and Gago... damn... fuckin game i ever seen... damn... i hate brazilians... i hate baptista... damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.........

Rio said...

we've tried enough seba. we tried 40 years. first 10 years no success. then we got our 2 trophies. then ppl started going conservative and play balanced football. then we kept failing for almost 15 years...

basile's return symbolized our last ditch of will to go with the tradition. And it failed again.

there's no more tries. the nation is tired of it. we want to see changes now.

johnny said...

Well, I am glad I was not blogging during this disaster. So many things went wrong it makes for a difficult post mortem. The negative factors:

1. Brazil's tactic of fouling in midfield to keep the ball away from Messi and Carlitos worked to perfection.

2. Our defense is so vulnerable to quick counterattacks. Exploited tonight.

3. Not enough speed from our midfielders or back four to deal with this combination of speed, size and talent from Brazil.

4. Mental-the early goal got us thinking bad thoughts and Ayala's own goal confirmed the players worse fears.

5. With the heat and humidity it was key to not to get behind early.

Impressions-I agree with Seba that Coco should not be fired and I personally hope he stays. It will be time for Coco to start looking very closely at giving some other players more playing time and easing some guys to the bench or out altogether. I would look for Veron to be gone for good. Maybe Pato as well, particularly if he does not cotton to a backup role. Younger players must be given a chance to break into the back four. I am particularly thinking Cata Diaz. Please, more speed and more size. I would look for Gago to get more time. I was hoping Coco would have subbed him today. One of Coco's few mistakes in my opinion. Masche will be there for the long haul. We are set with Messi and Tevez, but a big target is necessary and I think that hurt us tonight. We had a ton of free kicks into the area and nothing to show for it. As for Riquelme-who knows ? He still is loaded with talent and I hope his desire remains intact. He was doubled the entire match tonight. Gago could have helped more there than anybody else that was on the pitch. Well, alot of thoughts, eh? To sum up, Coco gave this Copa his best shot with the old guard and in the end they were found wanting. Between now and the World Cup it will be time to add and subtract and not be concerned about looking like the best team in the world every match.