Sunday, July 15, 2007

There is no justice in this World

Everything that could go wrong, went wrong.

We were clearly the best team of the tournament.

It doesn't matter anymore. Not now.

I'll write more in a while. Not now.

31 comments:

Rio said...

U-20

if we win, we're the favorite again to win the tourney.

difference is, our U-20 is more adaptable because they're also more flexible.
they aren't stubborn like the senior side, that's why they can win!

Anonymous said...

Seba isnt that saying from Diarios de motocicleta? No justice in the world?

Seba said...

I don't know if that saying is from that movie. I wouldn't feel bad if I stole that from something that one of the greatest men that ever lived in this World said.

Anonymous said...

Yes ,The goddess didn"t in our side. We couldn"t score when we had chance and Brazil score when they had chance.I thought Coco had to take the blame .May be we had no luck .Anyway ,Let"s cheer up our U20 squad
....Tonymed

alwin said...

Sorry but there is nothing got to do with justice and so on, we can keep going on and on about not having justice but if you are not good enough to win it on the field then it doesnt really matter what previous results suggest. Its the same old story isn't it?? We play control possesion, we were the better team throughout the tournament but when it mattered we CHOKED!!. Oh wh oh why do you do this to me ARGENTINA and thats why i love everything about you, you keep me waiting and wait i will until, no matter what, there is no other team that my heart longs for..te amaré siempre ARGENTINA

Seba said...

Thanks Alwin for this beautiful message!

I think that's what makes us love Argentina even more. We are not glory-seekers. We love our colours no matter what. And we'll forever do that.

I guess what I mean when I say that there is no justice in this world has something more to do with me.

Life brought me to Brazil for a few months and I got a lot of (friendly) abuse from my friends from work.

I can assure you they didn't give a damn about this Copa America and I was really looking forward to this competition.

They stayed indiferent throughout the entire tournament and now they are "out of the closet", calling me like crazy and teasing me big time.

Unfair!

gonzo said...

we came to have a fistfight, they came with a gun and thats that.

allan ng said...

Just feel very disappointed... not just because we lost but because even when we were 2-0 or 3-0 down there seemed to be nothing we could do to even get a goal back...

Everytime we had freekicks, Riquelme just seemed to float the ball into the area aimlessly...

Anyway don't want to dwell on that now... our U20 just beat Mexico by a goal. So the U20 World Cup could still be ours (again)!

johnny said...

PLEASE ! No Riquelme bashing ! He was the best player Argentina had throughout the Copa. He was unfortunate not to score tonight and was double teamed constantly. The defeat can be blamed on any number of players or things, but not Riquelme ! My irritated two cents on that subject. Find another whipping boy, PLEASE !

Roy said...

I am completely heartbroken. I mean just completely heartbroken. I really thought we were going to play our hearts out and get the victory, but we didn't. It seems as if the whole team didn't click at all. Our back was shaky(like it has been for the entire tournament), our midfield needs speed and up front well... they couldn't do much. Brazil's early goal really shook us, but we were nearly on the board when Riquelme hit the post. After that, it was pretty much all downhill.

I don't think we subbed properly. And something tells me the whole Crespo being fit was more mind games than anything. They were trying to cripple Riquelme the whole match and were on Messi and Tevez just as much. With that said, maybe this is a blessing? Not that we lost, but that the Basile now knows that there has to be some shake-up in the team. Veron did absolutely NOTHING for the team this tournament and Gago would of benifited alot more than Veron did(assuming he did benefit at all). If anything, bring back Sorin and get rid of Veron. And Gago definatly should of been a starter.

As for the back... I'm not sure how much longer Pato will be a starter. And Ayala... As a veteran, I thought he would of known better. But, still, in my opinion he should wear the captains arm band(either him or Zanetti), because you can't fault him for us losing. Zanetti is still the heart and soul of that NT.

Up front... Messi, Tevez, Crespo, Milito, Palacio... Crespo can still go, Messi and Tevez we need, Milito... We need the height. Palacio, I don't see him in the NT for some reason. I just can't. 4 better players(in my opinion) and from what I saw from Palacio with the NT, he's one of those players that does good for the clubs he plays at, but can't seem to find that spark with the NT.

Pi said...

In the second half the team felt like having no motivation. Many of the moves started from heinze ( of all the people ). This is not riquelme bashing, but we missed a playmaker in the second half. may be aimar should have come early so that some one could use the space we got when they double teamed him

Pi

Roy said...

I have to disagree with you Pi. It's not that we missed a playmaker, our playmaker was there... He was just triple teamed all the time. He barely had time with the ball and when he did he had 3 yellow shirts on him. You can't blame 1 person. People might blame Ayala, Riquelme and even Basile... But I won't. You win as a team and you lose as a team. Sadly, I hate hearing "There's always next time" when it comes to Argentina. But what can you do.

VAMOS VAMOS ARGENTINA!

johnny said...

Crazy Johnny's Player ratings:

PATO-5 How much of this mess was Pato's fault ? He was left damn near alone. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, he looked very shaky.

AYALA-3 His own goal was an absolute killer. Fell asleep against Mexico. Can't make his mind up which club he wants to play for.

G. MILITO-5 Guilt by association.

ZANETTI-6 Gave it his all. Looks like gold compared to his comrades.

HEINZE-4.5 Got used on more than one occasion.

MASCHERANO-7.5 Like a man with his finger in the dike, while everyone else is running for the hills.

VERON-4.5 Looked like a potted plant at times. Back to Estudiantes for the duration.

CAMBIASSO-4.5 Not a threat offensively and too slow to be of help against counters.

RIQUELME-7 Marked by two men constantly and not enough help from his teammates. Even so, almost scored twice.

MESSI-6.5 I guess he was felled by the heat in the second half. Looked his dangerous self in the first half but basically vanished.

TEVEZ-6 Never got untracked. Did he have a shot on goal ?

AIMAR-5 No impact to speak of despite getting minutes.

LUCHO-5 No impact.

allan ng said...

I was not bashing Riquelme, I just felt that he could not find a target to hit the freekicks at. We needed a tall striker in there to be the target man, like Crespo or Milito or Cruz.

Also Brazil were systematically fouling us near the halfway line. They knew we could pose no threat with a freekick from that distance. They always had someone closing in or fouling Riquelme and sucked the soul out of our game.

For me the worst player was Cambiasso. He basically missed the game completely. He should be protecting Riquelme but he wasn't. He just wasn't there. Basile was right to sub him for Aimar, but I wasn't sure about Lucho.

I think by that time it was all or nothing and we could have put in Milito and played three strikers. We were 2-0 down and we needed someone right up there to cause havoc, not on the right wing...

johnny said...

Allan Ng-sorry for my outburst ! I am overly sensitive on the Riquelme issue. I think your match analysis is spot on.

Anonymous said...

Frankly, it's all got to do with " MENTAL STRENGTH ". After Maradona in 1990 WC, we don't have resolute leadership on the field (someone where the other players can take the cue from), that is why whenever we come to the crunch we fail. Never mind, I am sure at some stage we will have a new leader. Perhaps Mascherano (which i suggested previously) or even
Messi in 2 to 3 years time.

Argentina never lacks top soccer talent, a new captain / leader must evolve, then we can get back to winning ways ..

ASIAN FAN

Pi said...

Roy, I am not pointing the finger at riquelme, he did what he could, with the attention he got, but that is not enough for the team. For god's sake if every team put 3 men on riquelme and we start playing like this, then we are doomed. I was just saying the midfield should have people who can create moves, control the game atleast for some time, if the play maker is man-marked like this. And i agree very much with what 'Asian Fan' has to say. We really lacked motivation in second half. We need a leader on the pitch, who can lift the team

andaman said...

The heartache never ends. You begin to get use to it but it still hurts.

Agree with you Johnny. Riquelme was the best player for Argentina in this tournament (and WC06, but it's just my opinion). Roman was playing against 2 or 3 Brazilian team everytime he touched the ball. He tried. Didn't get much help.

ASIAN FAN is spot on with the mental issue.

Dont' feel like writing anything much right now. Thanks for the analysis and the rating, guys. I just need to read something.

Amarmend said...

well... we r need some chenges... some... i think basile should believe Militogoal... He was scoring last two season 40+ goals la liga... and he is tall... and he is young than Crespo... then we r developoing Pipita Higuain... i hope he is next Crespo... He is more physical and more tall.... and i wanna see Messi in midfield... left or right wing... and i wanna see Masche+Gago in the midfield...
+Lucho... He is absolutely most talented player... he is can shoot, long range passes and tackles...
I heard Sosa is great in Bayern training... that's my formation...

..........Ustari/Carrizo...........
Zaba...Gonzalo/Burdisso/Milito...Heinze/Bottinelli
Lucho/Sosa...Gago...Masche...Messi...
....Militogool/Higuain...Tevez/Aguero

how it's?

AO said...

Gutted. Fell in love with Argentina during 1994 WC and have known only pain since. Olimpics and Junior WCs aside. To me, football is an alternate worldview - philosophy of life and Argentina play the game the way I think it should be played. That's why I feel the pain...
What is needed, besides strong leadership (as mentioned by others above), is some arrogant impunity and belief in their own superiority by the players. We need to lose "the world is unfair" complex and go take what's ours - Brazil showed they ain't givin' it to us just for asking. We need to go for the jugular (I mean, for example, we needed to continue and get the 2nd goal against the Germans in the WC, for example).
As for future leadership, it comes best from the goalie or a defender. Pato was too timid. Zanetti maybe - but we are talking about the future. Any promising goalies in Argentna to take over soon?

Anonymous said...

You can pretty much kiss Milito good bye. He is as good as Lucho Figueroa. Messi in the middle? Ahnn, and now where is Riquelme? Or even Aimar? Forget Lucho, and Sosa why not throw in Martin Demichelis?. He should of been in the 06 team but got the shaft. A lot of soul searching to do. But sorry to say, I was not too fond of your line up.

Also I am starting to have a major like in BANEGA. He is a solid player. Higuain needs to go to a team that can just focus on him, how Crespo went to Parma then Lazo. Real Madrid is too big of a club for him with too many faces.Another big striker that struck out was Cavenaghi then again all the best players in the world for to Spartak. If Argentina wants to win 2010, lets put a team together in a year or so for the WC Qualif and run with that, give them a couple of years to play with each other so they know each other. What gets under my skin is that if Argentina had won this they would of played in the 2009 Conf Cup. Last time around BRZ were the winners of the 02 WC and the runner up of Copa America went. So now that was something Argentina gave up as well in today loss. Just a bitter bitter pill to take. But hey if history repeats itself the WC winner in 2010 will come from South America, because no european team has won the WC outside of europe. Lets say Brasil wins that 2010 that will give them 6 and 2014 is likely going to be hosted in Brasil and that can put#7 on Brasil's shirt. I am just speaking hypothetically. By 2014 I am sure I will be married with kids and I hope this game will not mean as much as it does to me now.

P.S. No offense when I meant I did not like your line up.

,Jack

Anonymous said...

Ladies and gentlemen,

We are all die-hard Argentina fan, so let not quarrel about the players individually, who should play or not play or play what position .. This is merely a MICRO issue, What the AFA should resolve is the MACRO issue, the issues not relating directly to the football. We need FIELD LEADERSHIP and we need all the national players (whoever they are) to go through vigorous mental training.

I became an Argentina supporter in 1990 WC because it was not only Maradona who impresses me with his skills and leadership qualities, the other key aspect is the "never say die" attitude displayed by all the other players of the 1990 team .. trust that's how we progress to the finals with an average team (but full respect to all the players).

After 1990, it just when downhill. Look at how we collapse in 1994 after starting as favorites, 1998, 2002 and 2006. Each and every one of these WC series, we have on paper a very strong team but again when it comes to the crunch, we get crunched, whatever the reasons, bad-luck, blah, blah, .

I don't blame any individual player at all. It is a senior management issue ..

In June 06, amidst all the euphoria, I was hesitant about our mental strength and I mentioned them in this forum. True to form, we went out in the quarters, having started brilliantly.

Many soccer commentators talk about Argentina peaking too soon in competitions. I don't think so, it is all about having an undisputed leader and the team's collective mental strength to win on the big occasion. Maradona and Backenbeur comes to mind easily .. they provide the master leadership on the field.

Of course, I will continue to support Argentina, win or lose.


Asian Fan

Niraj said...

I really dont want to write a much but I just want to spill my fraustration and anger the attitudet the argentine players have.After Diego has gone, our team seems totally lost.
I belived in this team so much.And I had reasons.Everyone had reasons to belive in this team.And they showed it in all games except the all important finals. I really am starting to hate them for that. They play the best football, they have the best goals, best players yet they loose when they need to win the most and that also in such and such a damn bad way.
Didnt you guys read what Dunga said before the Finals? 'Sure we are the underdogs but we got surprises for argentina'.I was bitting my nail from then cause I knew what that meant from watching all the games we loosed against them.He was going to play it the Brazillian style, WIN AT ANY COST.And we saw it so cleraly with those yellow cards for time wastes which just was so disgusting for the game of football.And their fouls, but its the way the brazillian play.Physical and Brutal and those counter attacks.Look just how scared they were, they were starting to waste times in the 52nd minutes and getting yellows for that and if we could have just hit one back in beginning of the 2nd half, we could have come back but it just went all wrong when we should have played the best game. I knew that Veron and Cabiasso were disaster. Common why was it so needed to play them when they were clearly out of form?Just look at the way Cambiasso gave away ball, horrible!And the keeper, belive me guys, I really think we need someone to easily trust on the keeping, Pato needs to leave for someone new if we are to even dream of wining 2010.Another tournament, yet another heartbreak, I am tired of loving the best football team in the world and yet and yet always being on the loosing side against such and disgusting and horrible team.We need a leader, a new Diego and Kempes.In the ask El Matador section, I had asked a question which I hope will go through cause its the single most important question in the game now.Despite having the best team,players and games, why are we always loosing in the most crucial times? Why does it seem that we forgot to play football in our most important matches? And is there some kind of brazilophobia in our NT?They always seem so nervous with these brazilians, I couldnt see except masche anyone reallying trying to fetch the ball from the brazilians foot.Guys maybe we need a some foreign coach who gives more emphasis on scoring goals and being for stronger then just playing great game and breaking our heart.I AM F*CKING TIRED OF HEARING FROM THE BRAZILIAN FANS...."YEAH YOU WERE THE BEST TEAMS BUT GUESS WHAT THE CUP IS OURS".......................FCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK..................

Rio said...

peaking too soon is irrelevant here. the teams that 'peaked too soon' were trash teams that took advantage of the incoherence of better sides at beginning of tournaments.

AFA is like a mafia. It has its way of doing things, and it won't budge unless they're really under pressure.

they've been delaying this high level revamp in AFA for far too long, now they gonna get hammered into submission. and it'll come very quickly. Working monday coming up lol...

Anonymous said...

Guys this is such a great read. Talks about pretty much a passing game(Argentina) vs a physical game and counter attack(Brasil).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tim_vickery/07/15/copa.final/index.html

,Jack!

Anonymous said...

Guys this is such a great read. Talks about pretty much a passing game(Argentina) vs a physical game and counter attack(Brasil).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/tim_vickery/07/15/copa.final/index.html

,Jack!

Anonymous said...

Brazil are the champions and they deserve it, They were the better team.

as for the Argentina team, I have been supporting this team since 1990 and now we are in 2007 !!!!!!!!!

and nothing but total humiliation, I have had it with this team.

I am really sorry to say this, But I have had it with comparing players to Maradona, Please stop doing it, Nobody is like this guy, all the player are corrupted. They play better with their fancy European clubs.

A bunch of loosers. This is my last day as Argentina fan, it just not fair, I feel sorry for the Argentinian people, they deserve better dedicated people.

Anonymous said...

Messi is the next Maradona!!!!!

Please ....

Stop it

All this is a joke ...

A fake ...

Argentina was Maradona

Maybe Batistuta

Bot not Messi.

Over confidence and ego is what killed this team..

TheTrasher said...

ahi dear john, i see you feel bad about this, i hope you know read spanish, here i put a link to my blog, in wich i give some points of view about the match, and you will see how i feel about the final we have loosed.

i invite everybody to see the post.

http://thetrasher.com.ar/2007/07/cebollitas.html

you can left a comment in spanish,inglish,etc

congrat to brasilian team, they deserved it

best regards.

thetrasher
http://thetrasher.com.ar

carl Jr. said...

BASILE SHOULD GO......VERON SHOULD NEVER PLAY IN THE NT....CAMBASSIO IS TOO SLOW...OUR TEAM'S BIGGEST IS ITS INCAPACITY OF CHANGING ITS STYLE IN FACE OF ADVERSITY..UNTIL WE CAN DO THAT...WE WILL LOSE ALL TOURNAMENTS...PLAYING BEAUTIFUL SOCCER IS NICE....BUT YOU'VE GOT TO WIN AT SOME POINT....OH BY THE WAY..AYALA NEEDS TO GO TOO...REVAMP THE ALL TEAM...THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE FOR THIS ARGENTINE TEAM TO HAVE LOST AGAINST BRAZIL...AS A NATION WE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF OURSELVES AND SHOW MORE DIGNITY....AREN'T WE TIRED OF LOSING...AREN'T WE?

Rio said...

finally i see some sense in these talks...