I started this article right after the Brazil match, but thought it would be wise to continue and finish it after getting a good nights rest. I've mostly defended MARADONA(aside from him not wanting to call-up CAMBIASSO), but the match against Brazil was a huge blow and a bitter pill to swallow.
I'm not sure where to start off, so I'll just start at the back. MARADONA made a huge gamble when he started DOMINGUEZ and OTAMENDI. Two players who on the International stage have little to no experience. It was either going to turn out great or backfire. Sadly, it backfired. I don't care how much experience someone has at club level, you cannot give someone their INTERNATIONAL debut(Sebastian DOMINGUEZ) in a match with such importance, against Brazil of all teams. In the end, Diego rolled the dice and got snake eyes. I know DOMINGUEZ, PALERMO and SCHAVI we're all emergency call-ups(due to injuries), but we shouldn't even be having these emergency call-ups in the first place. Why call-up someone like PAPA(who in my eyes is just as bad if not worse than HEINZE at the moment... and that's saying something) or someone like COLOCCINI when you can replace those 2 players(who are nothing more than bench players) with quality defenders such as SAMUEL, GONZALO RODRIGUEZ, FAZIO, PAREJA and GARAY who actually have a chance to start with the National Team. I guess what I'm trying to say is why waste 2 useless spots when you can pick from the list I just mentioned? I've defended HEINZE in the past and even said in the podcast that the match against Brazil was going to make or break him. And it broke him. If we do make it to South Africa(which we will), Diego cannot possibly think of going far with a defence like that. Oh and ZANETTI? Still World class for me, no matter what anyone says.
Secondly, I don't understand how someone like Lisandro LOPEZ who has been scoring goals for FUN(with Lyon and also scored against Russia) doesn't even make the bench, let alone not start. I love TEVEZ as much as the next person, but at this point, he should be used as a supersub type of player, if not as a last resort. He tracks back and defends, but at this point that's all he seems to do. A forward's main strength should not be tracking back and defending. It should be scoring goals and causing problems to the opposing teams defence. His shots these days have been towards defenders or off the mark. He doesn't have that killer instinct anymore and there are(or should be) players in front of him in the pecking order. Diego MILITO, Lisandro LOPEZ, Sergio AGUERO and even Mauro ZARATE(Note, I'm talking about goal scoring, which they all seem to be doing perfectly fine at the moment) should all be starting ahead of Carlitos. But it seems that if you're not related to MARADONA or you didn't play for Boca, you're not going to start. In a match against Brazil, playing without a target man is suicidal. They have tall defenders who will physically get you off the ball and win balls in the air. Not only that, but what about our set pieces? Or lack there of. We all know Brazil are deadly on set-pieces. Everytime we had a corner or a free kick, I cringed because I knew the ball would eventually end up in Brazilian hands in just a few seconds. Yet, to put to it as John told me, "It seems as if Diego doesn't care about set-pieces". John, I couldn't of put it better myself.
Onto my next point, MESSI. Poor, poor MESSI. He played out of his skin against Brazil, but sadly most of the other players didn't even show up for the match. I think everyone has mentioned this a million times on Mundo, so I'll make it a million and one, MESSI should not be used as a striker. He's not an out-and-out goal scorer, stop using him like one! MAXI has been beyond horrible lately, slot MESSI in MAXI's postition and play LOPEZ/MILITO/AGUERO(any 2 of those 3) up front. Next-up on the chopping board, VERON. I don't mind having VERON on the team as long as his playing time is limited. He brings experience and composure to the team, which every team needs. But what I want to know is at the World Cup, does Diego really think VERON can go 90 minutes in every match? Because there is absolutely no way, ever. Didn't Diego meet up with AIMAR a while back? Well, maybe it's time to bring Pablito back. If anything, atleast as an alternative for VERON.
The Paraguay game will be key and extremely crucial if we want to qualify for 2010. Anything less than a victory will be a blow to our qualification. I know this article seems negative, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. We still have 3 matches left, 1 of which at home(and by then a new list for the Qualifiers will be released), the teams we needed to lose lost(Uruguay and Ecuador) and we have the best strikers in the World. We just need Diego to start the right players with the right tactics. I don't want Diego to get fired, because firing him now will do more harm then good.
If you would like to take part in our next podcast, just send us an e-mail to argentina.correspondent@gmail.com.
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Interesting article. However the realty is the only change that can be made for match against Paraguay is bringing in Lisandro instead of Tevez. But the key player who is the pivot of the team in the midfield Veron is neither capable nor composed at the national team level to contribute to a win. He has never done it even in his peak. The only way Argentina can win at Paraguay is by luck or something exceptional by Messi. The back up for Veron in the current squad are local argentina league players who have never performed well in the recent qualifiers with national team. Argentina might beat Paraguay and Maradona's job might be saved. But with him in charge and the system/selection he adopts is surely a recipe for disaster.
I am completely in agreement with all you points except regarding Diego Milito. He has been given so many chances but I do not consider him a national team talent. I would prefer Higuain to Milito because he has the capability to move the ball around.
I completely agree with you about Papa.
Lisandro's absence has no explanation at all; Coloccini, but no López? I would have expected him to get in instead of Milito. Higuain was not going to be there, but Lisandro? He even scored against Russia, he had everything to be there.
And what you say about being a friend of Maradona or playing/having played for Boca, it's true and sad. It goes to an extent where you could have Krupoviesa as a forward, but Buonanotte not even in the bench (just an example).
But to be honest, I don't think getting rid of Maradona right now, say after Paraguay, would be a bad idea. What could be worse? Our deffense is dead, and knowing Maradona, it won't be improved. We score once, twice, and Paraguay scores five or six goals... wouldn't be a surpirse.
Actually I'm more worried about who could be the next coach if Maradona gets fired or quits (though that would be weird from Diego). Please, let it NOT be Batista.
I remember this was the topic something like one year ago, when Basile quitted, and now it's the time for Maradona. He won't quit now, but he will, after Uruguay. That's my bet.
Not to defend MARADONA here, I think he is making a lot of mistakes, but when it comes to Lisandro, I understand he was unable to perform last night. He picked up an injury. Diego was asked about him in the build up for the game and he said: "I'm not going to tell you whether he will be ready to play or not. I guess it will be a game-time decision". So, obviously, that was the reason why he was missing from the bench last night.
Regarding VERON, I don't think he had a bad game last night. He worked very hard and his distribution was brilliant at times. In my opinion, he is another victim of our lack of work and our lack of a reliable system.
And Raj, VERON's backup in this current squad would be GAGO. You can hardly say he is unproven.
MARADONA will never quit. It's against his codes. GRONDONA will never fire him. It's against his codes.
That's why I still want us to get out of jail in the next three matches, because it's better to go to the World Cup and fail there than to not make it to South Africa at all.
My wish now? MESSI-MILITO to form a partnership in Paraguay.
I'm confident once MILITO gets to play next to someone like MESSI (and not AGÜERO who will never pass the ball to him), then we'll score more goals than we concede.
If not...I wish Lisandro is ready for Wednesday and I wouldn't mind seeing him together with MESSI.
TEVEZ? The biggest disappointment of this World Cup Qualifiers for me. Not only yesterday, but overall.
We can't keep using him in every game. I love him to death, but he simply is not helping our team.
Seba, I didn't know about Lisandro getting a knock. Question though, when did LOPEZ get the knock? Was it prior to Diego saying TEVEZ will start or after? Either way it's still weird for Diego to go with TEVEZ ahead of AGUERO or MILITO.
VERON had a decent game, but I wasn't talking about just last night in particular(in his case). Future wise, we can't depend on VERON being our playmaker, we need someone else. GAGO is proven with us, but if we use GAGO ahead of VERON(or AIMAR or any other playmaker), then we'll really have no creativity in midfield.
And you're right, Diego will never quit and GRONDONA will not fire. Something tells me we're not going to get MESSI in midfield against Paraguay, so I wouldn't mind seeing MESSI-MILITO up front(or MESSI-LOPEZ up front, providing he's 100% ready to go).
Salvio supporter, the thing about us scoring twice and conceding more is only true when we concede first. If we can manage to score first, then the game is in Diego's hands. If we concede first, then it's never looked good for us.
The fact is that we're playing without a system, without tactics, without anything. Sadly, I find Diego more of a motivator than as an actual coach. And even as a motivator, it doesn't seem to be working.
i second tht with the article...
Roy agree with you completely man. Maradona needs to find a tactic and stick with it. Other then that...sad to say our defense and goal keeping is holding us back from being a top notch team. We need fresh faces on our defense, it sucks that Demi got injured.But we can't change who is called and not called for the Paraguay game. I want to see atleast 3 or 4 changes to the Starting XI for Wedensday's game or else I will never agree with anything Maradona does every again.
The four changes I would make the starting XI would be.
Romero in for Andujar
Pareja in for Dominguez
Salvio in for Maxi
Lisandro in for Tevez
The one positive I took away from this game is the fact that Datolo is proving his worth that he is dangerous. Vamos Datolo
I am still not convinced that Gago can be a playmaker. He is more in the defensive midfielder category. Just my opinion.
I have been expecting a lot from Milito and he has always disappointed me with the national team. Anyday I would prefer Higuain, Aguero or Lisandro to Milito. Tevez for me is history unless he has a great season with man city and gets back to the kind of form he had prior to 2007. Would still prefer Saviola just for his pure talent and team work he has shown in past.
Phew...let's hope Argentina can collect three points from Paraguay. Honestly, based on Argentina performance against Brasil, I'm not sure they can beat Paraguay. Everybody knows Paraguay had good record in their home. Just can't believe SOuth Africa without Arg and Messi!!!
It's really a shame about Tevez. He seems to have lost himself as a player to some degree. Much too interested in how he is perceived by others, rather than working on his game, progressing, and being smart. I thought he did himself a disservice by not letting go the anti-Fergie thing right away, and continuing to blast Ferguson long after he was gone from ManU. To what end ? It made him look small and bitter after he had already achieved what he said he wanted-out of ManU. I fear Carlos has got a touch of the big head and would benefit from remembering his humble roots. Still a big favorite of mine, but I hope his days of starting for the NT are over, for now at least.
Alright guys! Having been through the whole day after receiving plenty of text messages and constant torture from even family member! I guess its time for me to do my post mortem.
First of all, I do hear all the comments that I’m getting from you. All of them. Though to a certain a degree I may not agree with some of them, but respect is all due to you because in the end; this is our national team and we do have the right to speak about what is happening.
So after I digesting all of them, all I can say that I’m pretty full right now.
First things first, was it the players or was it the tactics that killed us? I say both.
Our defense was a real mess throughout the whole game, with the exceptional of Javier ZANETTI of course. As I’ve mentioned too in our previous pod cast the pairing of OTAMENDI-DOMINGUEZ was a big risk taken by Diego, much more so in a crucial World Cup qualifier against Brazil. Like what Roy has said, its either going to pay off dividend or backfire us big time. Sadly we got the latter.
The first goal for me was a real shocker. Who the hell was supposed to be man marking LUISAO in that moment? In my humble opinion, it is basic fundamental of football that in the event of set pieces (be it free kick or corner), while defending you must be a sticking shadow on your opponent. You stick with him like a Siamese twins that is totally inseparable. Anyone who is left alone is that kind of situation, 98% of the time you are going to get kill.
And it was clearly that we repeated that same mistake a few more times during the rest of the match and got killed 2 more times. There was no follow up shortly after ANDUJAR manages to block and the last goal was like open invitation for Luis FABIANO to score freely.
I will not blame our keeper ANDUJAR for what has happened. I still feel that he did best possibly he could. In fact, I doubt neither Oliver KAHN or Peter SCHEIMICHAEL could have done anything better.
Gabriel HEINZE? I just don’t get it. Yes, he seems to be a favourite choice for Diego and for our last three managers (BIELSA, PEKERMAN and BASILE). I’m sorry but I do have to give the hardest criticism here. Why does he keep playing those over the top crosses which is so not Argentina? As I was mentioning to Roy during our chat “ is he trying to win a place kicking job in the NFL?”
Speaking of crosses, such things can suicidal when you have two short players up front having to come up against a towering defenders like LUCIO.
Now about our midfielders. Maxi was close and if not was really horrible at times. I really miss the Maxi that I fell in love some 2-3 years ago. I still hope he rediscover that kind of form that made him one of our best players in 2006. DATOLO was not bad as he should give him the credit that he deserves for scoring our only goal in the game. At least we had some hope.
As for the central midfielders partnership, I will still defend from what I’ve said in the pod cast that this was the best we had. Of course we can talk about the players that have not been called up but the reality is that right now, this is what we have.
I still think MASCHERANO could have done a better job with KAKA, just like what he did in the Champions League Final in 2007 for Liverpool. I just this was one of those days (though sadly it had to happened in this game) and I know he will do better.
Finally our two players up front.
TEVEZ oh TEVEZ! For all his hard work, I have to agree that he has not been lethal enough to push himself forward. Too many times he tends to drop back and that’s not good. I feel pity for MESSI. It was his home crowd and he really showed that he wanted to silence those critics. But there is no way he could do it all by himself. Clearly Brazil had a mission to neutralized him throughout the game. When that happened, surely the rest of them on the field had raise their game but they just didn’t.
I wouldn’t want to comment about the exclusion of Lisandro LOPEZ as we’ve just got to know about his knock. However again and again, I also feel pity for Diego MILITO. It is proven that he deserves to play for a full 90 minutes game. He was clearly under pressure to score when he came in and lets not forget he did had one great chance to pull us back. If it wasn’t for the great goalkeeping by Julio CESAR, then perhaps the story would have been different. Having said that, I would pray and wish that Diego will start either of them (provided if Licha recovers in time for the trip Asuncion) ahead of TEVEZ.
Overall a defeat at home against our rival is indeed a hard bitter pill to swallow. Furthermore it had also made our path to South Africa even harder. However I don’t think that sacking Diego will improve the whole situation either. Let us believe that we will still make it (I know we will) even though the road ahead of us is going to as bumpy as ever.
And here is an open invitation to anyone out there who would like to be a guest on our next pod cast. Drop us an e-mail at argentina.correspondent@gmail.com.
U guys stop arguing, we lost, we understand and respect maradona, but for me his not a great coach, he has choosen players out of the box, we have experienced players like crespo, palermo, we have zarate, di maria, aimar, saviola, messi, aguero, lopez, cavanegi, riquelme, lucho, rodrigues from villareal, we have gago, banega,sosa,demischelis,insua,tevez,zabaleta
,dusher,colocini,walter samuel,zanetti, look at the players we have, maradona coludnt even think if a strong starting side even wid home advantage, sivan john,maradona is a good player not a good coach and if you know great soccer players have never been great coaches and its a fact.
i just thing diego should be sincere with he's lack of beeing in charge of the nt and resined let's get pekerman back cause even if we make it to south africa with diego that's going to be a disaster and messi doesn't deserve that i hope diego gonna resine
keeping it short: remove maradona, have no coach and let the team play as a bunch of friends. you will feel no difference...this team is playing with no plan, with no system.
WE WILL NOT QUALIFY TO THE WC AS LONG AS MARADONA IS THE COACH.
***************
http://goal.com/en/news/1863/world-cup-2010/2009/09/06/1484337/world-cup-debate-how-diego-maradona-has-turned-argentina
Seba,
how could i defend messi? because he tried his heart out. review the game. every time we had something about to happen upfront, it was messi's runs and passes that created it. just review the game.
Aguero and Milito are awful with the NT. Milito has wasted two chances with the minutes he played against brazil.
as for tevez...oh my oh my. i am fed up with the "hard-working" reputation. it just doesn't cut it anymore. i want an efficient player, a phenomenon player. and that is Zarate.
i want to see Messi and Zarate playing behind Higuain. i am very negative but the scenarion will be like this:
WE WILL LOOSE AGAINST PARAGUAY. Now there either maradona is sacked and we play for our lives for the final two matches or the asshole Grondona keeps the looser coach Maradona and we kiss the WC goodbye.
I really do not get how FIRING Maradona can make our situation any worse. Can SOMEBODY please explain that to me. How wrong will it be if gets fired and we bring a coach that knows the system like Pekerman. To everyone who is saying if we fire Maradona it will do more harm then good. The team I have been watching for the last few games has been a joke. We will be lucky to get out of the round of 16 if we manage to make the world cup. I just do not get how he will not call players such as Cambiasso, Samuel,Garay,Zarate,Higuain but yet ge calls up local boys on short notice and STARTS them. I posted that the 5th of September would be a day to remember and was it ever. So somebody answer me the million dollar question, how will getting rid of Maradona hurt the team? Maradona is not going to call those players we need, no way in hell. Lets take a long hard look at those players that start game in game out and see we are kissing a great chance goodbye.
Jack!
some ppl said to bring Riqulme back.....i dont agree with it..coz riquelme is a kind of player who only works when the whole team playing around him.... so if anyone stop him the whole team will stop..it happened in last world cup match against germany..beside that when you have player like messi u cant go for it.... thts why maradona told requelme to play more advanced role or diifferent way which he clearly denied....
on the other hand maradona has not got chances like dunga get plenty of time to work with all players around him...most of the players came 2\3 days before match and its did not help him to make a team as an unit....
one thing i am hppy to see that maradona took all the blames ..its mean he agreed that there were some errors in his tactis....and when a coach took the blame i think players have to do lot of things for the coach
one thing many of here might not agree tht is there any pressure of european club to their respective player to play in safe mode just to not let any injusry invite coz both domestic and european league will be shorter this year becuase of world cup 2010.....
its true if we beat brazil yesterday thn maradona would have been best coach so far..and all critisize would be stopped... that what football is all about..when u dont have any success u will be penalized..
i fully agrre with wat other ppl said about heinze...but do we have better alternative and experienced player in left....
i think maradona havnt have any option coz he got only few times and the best things that he could do is to change.... but again when chnages dont work wat he has to do....bring another player ..but does it gives u result or did it before....
last not least just look the players in brazil.... their performance in club level..bt when they play for the country they becomes different...but alomost everytime argentine player r not exactly same as they are in club...whyy...
shipul (die hard argentina fan from Bangladesh)
no Argentina won't lose against Paraguay. The probability that Argentina loses 3 consecutive quali-games in row is very small. against Brazil 2 goals conceided after freekicks, against Ecuador two goals conceided after long distance shots. now i think Argentina will score after a freekick or a flucky goal and win. But they have to score first, and not waste opportunities. Playing good is not enough.
I couldn't watch the game against Brazil, but i don't think it is only Maradona's fault. Brazil is the best team in the world. They have bigger potential than Argentina, simple because they are much bigger than Argentina.
Another point is: I have the feeling that Argentina have the shortest players of all big teams, especially in defense. That is a problem, too many players who are smaller than 1,80. Or am i wrong? What do you think about that? However, i am sure Argentina will be in South Africa.
Vitalij from Germany
Just finished watching the game for the second time.....I have to say that Veron, Messi and Datolo did not have that good a game that I thought last night. In fact they were all mediocre.
Datolo tried 6(!)long range shots, he scored a screamer but over all he was mediocre.
Messi did 3-4 fantastic things, but lost the ball many times. Veron was up and down like always, but of cousre he is not the future for this team. Going to a WC with Veron is naive. He will be eaten alive against european teams. I do however agree that from this squad Veron and Masch is the best pair of CM that we have. Gago? Come on....he is absolutely NOT a playmaker. But I'll take Aimar and Lucho over Veron any day.
Brazil created 4 chances, we created 4 chances....so an evenly contest in that sense...but they were really superiour in all the decicive moments of the game. They can score from set pieces AND defend set pieces. We can never score from set pieces(remember Roman and the Copa 07 final?)and we just can not defend set pieces at all. And keep on selecting mediocre defenders that can make debuts in really big games, and of course that will change...haha. Samuel, Demichelis, Garay, Gonzalo...they are not great any of them in my opinion, but they are the best we have...and they would know a thing or two about defending set pieces, Samuel has experience from a WC and the Copa + Serie A. He knows how to defend, all though he is a risky player who gives away lots of free kicks.
Tevez...I really love him, I do. I have seen all his games in west ham, Man U and City. It's one of the highlights every week for me. But he's just not making it n our NT. He should always be in the squad, but not a starter. He shouldn't be a starter for a looong time. Enough is enough!
Another thing.......Why can't we stop being naive and so fuckin' romantic all the time. We are Argentina, we must respect our tradition, we must keep possesion, we must tango, we must blah, blah, blah...Maybe not ALL the time, in every game. Why don't we try to be clever once in a while??? Learn from Brazil here.... In big games like this(and against top Euro teams)we must have a plan B. Football has changed, we can not be this naive anymore! Why don't we play a more defensive style when we meet Brazil and the top euro teams? A tight defence and try to counter attack just to let the bastards taste some of their own medicine, not always making it easy for them...not in EVERY game, but maybe in some.....even at home, when we know the oponents will only think about sitting back and waiting for us. I am just so fuckin' tired of losing to Brazil, so tired of these humiliation that I'll take anything as long as we can win some big games. We haven't won ONE really important game(qual, WC or Copa) against a real top class team since 2005 against Brazil!!!!!! Maybe something must be done??
Anyway...I love our team. I love Albiceleste! I even love them more after the defeat yesterday against the bastards. Cause they're my boys, I have loved them for 25 years. I even wore my Argentina jersey with pride this morning when I went out to the store. Nothing can take away this love. It's just pure magic to see a player in the white and blue shirt. All the lovely memories from my childhood comes back when I think about it. I wil love Albiceleste forever. Nothing can change that...not even a bad coach.
Replacing Diego now is a bad dea, would create too much fuzz in an allready diificult situation. I hope he resigns after the WC qual campaign is over...but of course he won't. I am dreaming about the death of Grondona(and maybe his son?)haha...and Bianchi as our NT coach. But that's just a stupid dream.
Seba
I think its not too late to bring on Julio Batista! he knows these players and he coached them last yr they respec him and listen to him since he won them the Olympics
But if Maradona stays i think it will be too late not to qualify to the WC! because seriously speaking his selections are off because he likes his (Favorites) and his tactics/strategy are waaaaaay off were using an English 4-4-2 system!
If Argentina are looking for someone to replace Heinze there is a guy whos been very consistant and is a great player named Jose Schaffer currently playing for Benifica and hes not even being considered! Papa is considered over him! (Favorites) wont work in a world of footbal because it never did before
Batista?? No way! Just to remind you...we did NOT impress that much when we won the olympics, we really didn't. Against Brazil in the olymoics, we were quite lucky to be honest. If you don't believe me, watch the game one more time. Batista is a young Basile. He wonæt do us any good. Bianchi is the man. He is also a gentleman, not a mafioso or an asshole.
And Higuain...why in the name og our dear father christmas do many of you guys think he is the solution to our problems. We need to play a real #9. Higuain isn't a real #9. Why do you think he is? Cause he scored over 20 gaols in La liga?? Come on. Aguero scored 20 and 17 goals in La Liga the last 2 seasons, does this make him a real #9 ??? Not at all!! He can be used as a #9, just like Higuain...but it's not their best position.
Wake up!
BTW, this is going to be the last time we face Brasil in a competitive match maybe for a long time. If we meet in WC,Copa America then it wont. Brasil does not have to qualify for the next WC, so next time we may face them in a game that is not a friendly could be 6 or 7 years down the road.
Jack!
Batista is not impressive?
Do you even remember the Olympics? the team went from being ok to improving in every single game! he moved Lavezzi out of the line-up and it worked, he then moved Mascherano to defense and it worked and not to mention hes the only Argentina coach to figure out how to use Messi-Aguer-Riquelme-Di Maria all in the same line-up and hav each play their role comfortably!
He gave Pareja his debut when no one even knew who the heck that was! he had creative players coming off the bench in Sosa/Bounanontte and above all the team played as a team there wasn't running and dribbling all over the place besides that he didnt even pick Tevez for the roster!
Now how many of you fans are asking for the exact same things that Batista did over a course of a tournament? guess what all of you are!
Word in BA is that Grondona wants to finish Burning Maradona and this is his way of doing it
Vitalij from Germany,
no way in hell Brazil has better potential than Argentina. they have a better "team" not better players.
Messi, zarate, higauin, aguero, milito, mascherano, tevez, cambiasso, samuel, zanette, gonazalo....
these are fantastic players. the problem is with the system...or the lack of it that is.
Interesting to note that press has started to target Messi for the poor showing. Was surprised that the attack on Messi has come out so late, expected it immediately after the game. Was sure that all Messi haters were waiting for an opportunity to pounce on him.
Guardian has compared Messi and Kakka. The article was a big joke stating that Brazil press claimed Kaka to be world class because he released Fabiano. What Kaka did 50% of the footballers worldwide would have done. There were 8 Argentines attacking and the team had forgotten defense. It was not the greatness of Kaka but the poor tactics from Argentina. Kaka has always been a good footballer but there was nothing great yesterday that made him world class. Am sure 90% of players that played for Brazil would have played that pass.
Coming to Messi, the statement that he can only play with Xavi and Iniesta or only good quality players seems to be unfair. If the match was followed closely the balls that came to him from Veron was never clear passes. Everytime he dribbled he was surrounded by 3-4 defenders and there were 2 clear opportunities where he released Milito ( am sure Fabianio would have scored that) and the second was for Aguero who instead of cutting across moved away. Both were world class because he did it when he was surrounded by 4 defenders. The fact is that with the tactics used by Maradona there were times he had to go back to win the ball and take it by himelf. Football is a game of 11 and not 1. Even when Maradona played the defense was excellent. Put Maradona in the situation Messi is in today, the result will be the same. When Maradona played he had Canniga and then Batigol, both of them were far superior to the Tevez, Milito and Aguero brand of players. They were clinical. If the press in Argentina feel Messi has not delivered for the national team please note that he was the architect of the olympics gold medal.
I just hope that we get a coach that understands modern day football,the value of team work and above all be a good tactician to enable Messi. With the current set of players selected,if Maradona (at his peak) replaced Messi today the result will be no different. I am a die hard fan of Maradona as a player. I never expected to see another player ever get close to what he has done as a player to football till Messi came. He will surely outdo all what Maradona has done. It is just a matter of time.
After watching the match again all I could do was to feel pity for Messi and the way others played around him.
Mohd,
sorry but Brazil has bigger potential than Argentina and any european country. Brazil's population is more than 4.5 bigger than Argentina's, and i think the average Brazilian is also a little bit taller than an average Argentinian, which is also an advantage. Both countries are equally crazy about football, so all in all that means (in theory, of course) that Brazil has a more than 4.5 bigger potential than Argentina. But that was always the case in the last 50 years, and still Argentina won the last really important game between them: WC 1990.
Also i have the feeling that people tend to overrate Argentina players, and Maradona is one of them. And if a coach can't estimate the potential of his team, he often chooses a wrong tactic and the team loses. that's what happen's to african teams at every wc. they think they can outplay everyone, even if they play against italy, argentina or brazil. we all know the result. If Maradona really thinks Argentina can beat anyone anytime without any problems, even if Argentina plays their best, then Argentina has a problem.
but even without a coach i am sure Argentina will qualify for 2010.
Vitalij from Germany
Vitalij
thats true about how Maradona underestimates his players capabilities
But personnel wise Argentina have the best players in the world as we speak ill make it simple for you
Andujar-Cesar = Cesar
Zanetti-Maicon = Equal
Samuel-Lucio = Samuel
Demiceles-Luisao = Equal
Insua-Santos = Insua
Kaka-Messi = Equal
Di Maria-Elano = Di Maria
Mascherano-Melo = Mascherano
Silva-Cambiasso = Cambiasso
Robinho-Aguero = Aguero
Fabiano-Tevez = Fabiano
Dont forget guys like Millito, Lopez, Riquelme, Aimar, Pastore, Zarate, Bounanontte, Sosa, Zarate, Garay, Gonzalo, Banega, Gago, Bolatti, Valeri, Belluschi, Fazio, Piatti, Perotti, Forlin, Schaffer, Zabaleta, Maxi Moralez
Any NT would love to have any of the other players that i just mentioned Argentina have been producing players like cows produce milk for the past 4 years heck every yr they produce a superstar type of player as a matter of fact Independiente have this kid called Patricio Rodriguez who's pulling strings as a playmaker this yr and is looking as good as Pablo Aimar use to look when he was with River!
King Aguero
i said the opposite: Maradona overestimates his players. I think Maradona doesn't know the meaning of "underestimate", when it is about him or the team he supports or coaches.
I can't bring arguments if Di Maria is better than Elano, simply because i don't know both of them and many other players. I can't see Argentina's games at all in germany, only at the wc and youtube highlights of other games.
But i can't believe that Argentina is the super football power that produces constantly the best players in the world, like some people (Maradona) think. I mentioned the points in my previous post. Argentina is a very strong team, equal to big european teams like England or Italy, maybe a little bit better. But it is a very small difference, 50-50 games if they play eachother at the wc. In the future Argentina will be superior, cause Europe is aging fast because of low birth rates, but then African nations will be stronger. But Argentina is never better than Brazil, no one is, be realistic.
And please can someone tell me the height of the players, especially defense? Seems to me that they are all smaller than the Brazil players. Considering the fact that over 50% of big matches are decided by dead balls, this is a very big disadvantage Argentina has.
Vitalij from Germany
This is really sad... Maradona has turned himself from virtually the most loved and worshipped figure in Argentina, to the most hated figure... especially if, God forbid, Argentina fail to qualify for the WC.
I just dont get how his mind works. Im trying to understand his logic. When he's sitting at his desk to call players up, here's what's probably going through his crack contaminated head:
Defence:
========
- Hmmmmm... defence. Lets see... at Inter there's Samuel and Burdisso. The former is starting and playing very well, very experienced too.. and the latter sitting on the bench, and they just sold him off to Roma. Hmmm... hard decision! Hmmm... ill take Burdisso... yeah that's it! :D
- What?!.. Dunga's gonna play Kaka, Robinho, Luis Fabiano, Elano... oh God!! How do i stop them?!?! Ok relax, be calm Diego... what are my options? Hmmm.. i know!! Ill debut Dominguez! :D And i think Otamendi's ready after two caps, that'll do the trick! :D
- Hmmm.. who else can i call? Oh yeah, Papa! Cant believe i almost forgot him!! hehe.. Diego you can be so stupid sometimes.. hehe!! "Oh yeah, Papa!"... pffff!! ((giggle))
- Damn im so confused, i dont have a clue who else to call! :S Hmmm, who did all my predecessors call? Aha, Heinze... there must be something good in him, cant figure it out. Ill play him again, maybe ill find out this time once and for all...?
Midfield:
=========
- Hmmm.. i need a good midfielder. Who do i have in Serie A... Who? Cambiasswho?? "He doesnt attract me"!!! Gago looks better, especially on the bench, wow... the way he sits there watching his teammates! So cute, makes me wanna call him instead...
- Lets take a look at the EPL. Aha... Newcastle just got relegated?! Ill take all the Argentines they'v got! :D
- Spanish league now... What??? Resino just stripped Maxi of his captaincy? Why?? He's not playing well??!? Ill show you bastards.. ill keep calling and playing him over and over again until Resino makes him captain again, even if it's at the expense of my national team!
- Wait.. i gotta call someone from the local league. I'v got a point to prove! Riquelme doesnt wanna talk to me coz im such a stubborn bastard. Hmmm.. Veron? Yeahhhh... he's growing younger! I heard he turns 22 tomorrow. I think he's still got it in him... Ill build the whole midfield around him!
Attack:
=======
- Higuain Higuain Higuain... uhhh, how's he doing with Real? Oh, top scorer?? Is that right... nahhh, not enough! What will i tell my daughter if i played him instead of Aguero??? No no... cant do that! Out of the question!
- Oh Napoli, how i miss you! Who do i have there? Oh... Lavezzi, Denis and Datolo. Hmmmm.. Lavezzi just got a pizza named after him... wow, not even i had a pizza named after me! Ill call him up... we'll sit and talk about Napoli over a pizza lavezzi dinner. Datolo can join in. Denis doesnt like pizza (thank God!).
- Ok now i need an all out striker up front, who shall i start? Hmmm.. Milito?? Nahhh, he's too in form with Inter. Hmmm... Lisandro? Nahhh, he's too hot with Lyon at the moment, plus i dont like his beard. Hmmm... Tevez? Former Boca player, of course!!!!!!! Hey, ill call Palermo and Schavi for laughs too... it'll be fun! :D
- Ok now i need a captain... someone with great character, strong charisma, bags of experience, and would LOVE to assume the role. Got it... this looks like a job for captain Mascherano!!! :D What?... he doesnt want to be captain? Damn this wont look good in front of the public :S Tell him its either he captains or he doesnt play!! What?... he changed his mind? Good.. give him the captain arm band! This is great!! :D
Interesting comments Ziggy
Vitalij
I dont know why you consider Brazil the best football nation but when was the last time they beat France?
Because producing players doesn't mean best football nation, playing great football doesn't mean best football nation, winning titles doesn't mean best football nation then what does it mean to be a best football nation?
Historically yes Brazil always have had a great team but so has Italy, France, Germany maybe Brazil produced the best players historically but for the past decade its all Argentina bro! the last good player to come out of Brazil was Robinho! the best good player to come out of Argentina is Messi, Aguero, Zarate! and thats just 1 generation! before them Brazil had ROnaldinho and Argentina had Riquelme, Aimar, Saviola thats another generation!
So plz explain your philosophy of it and since you dont even know Di Maria who Chelsea, Inter, Barcelona are all after then i dont even know why im having this cnversation!!!!!!!
I don't really know if Brasil produces better players or whatever. But playing World Cups is not everything in football. You just need to check out the statistics of South American cups like the Libertadores, and it's pretty clear there's a big difference between the WC Record Holding Brasil, and its local teams. THAT football is the real one, played day by day. Right there, Brasil not always holds the best players.
King Aguero
i think that if Argentina would play against Brazil 100 times on neutral ground, Brazil would win at 50, Argentina would win 20, and 30 would be a draw. That is what i mean with Brazil is better than Argentina.
If it sounds that i support Brazil: no i don't. I always supported only Argentina and will do so forever, but i don't believe they are the best.
Vitalij from Germany
Vitalji
so if they win 50 times that means they're better than Argentina? lool your still not making sense! Iran beat Australia does that make them a better football nation? France beats Brazil almost everytime they meet does that make them a better football nation? any team can win at any time but better football is measured by player producing, better football teams, better systems, better organization, and better playing and as far as im concerned the class of the 2006 WC was Argentina! even Brazilians would tell you that!
Ziggy's comments are interesting.
I just wish we beat Paraguay and qualify for South Africa. We can't play like we did anymore.
Ziggy
He was probably thinking that Veron, Palermo, Schiavi would have a case similar to Benjamin Button :p
hehe... King Aguero, if that's the case, then we cant blame him right? His reasons for calling Veron, Palermo and Schiavi were obviously long term, for the future of the NT!! Now i get it!!! :p
Oh and here's a good one i didnt mention (concerning Datolo)...
- Hmmm.. ill call Datolo. Maybe if he scores another goal he'll hump me again! :D
So after the game, i guess Diego's upset from Datolo. I wonder if he'll play him against Paraguay :p
i don't thinking firing Diego will do more harm than good. It will only do good...
have him as an assistant coach and bring in Bianchi, leaving Bilardo as DT. Bianchi and Bilardo are football geniuses who have been there and done that, as players and managers, but especially as managers. They would bring fantastic resolve to a shocking defence and steady composure to a lacking attack.
Anyone of us could do what Maradona seems to not be doing, and that is to pick a world class argentina team. If he's not doing even that, then there are big problems, and only the big guns can fix it up. BIANCHI all the WAY!!!
"King Aguero said...
Word in BA is that Grondona wants to finish Burning Maradona and this is his way of doing it"
No need to steal that from NYC Cosmos
Damn, isn't it sad that WE are having trouble even qualifying for the world cup. I sometime feel like stop watching argentina play. In the game we got 2 goal and I knew that was it, so I had stopped watching but after sometime I checked the score and it was 2-1 and I was like maybe a draw, so I started watching and Bamn! Fabiano scores. I remembered my mother saying; when you people watch it, your side always looses. When Barca won the champions league, I was like, Finally but this doesn't seem to be true with our team sadly.
I don't know how we are going to win against Paraguay. They seemed very good when they were playing Brazil and with that defense and lack of midfield, I am already hopeless. Only hope is Messi might pull something out of box and then whole team defends it to death.
Vamos Argentina
Best article I read in a long long time! All points were made, I wish Maradona was reading this.
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