Saturday, September 05, 2009

ARG 1-3 Brazil: I've seen this movie before

Even being extremely tired after a very long hard day, I'm choosing to write these lines only a couple of hours after Argentina lost to Brazil 3-1 on home soil.

The first thing that comes to my mind is what I've been repeating ad infinitum since I've been running this blog: Argentina play the tactic that fits Brazil's system like a glove.

That's how easily you can analyse the game. In many ways, this was exactly the same thing that happened in the Copa America final in 2007 and in a friendly we lost in London in 2006.

They scored quickly and they controlled the pace and the rhythm of the game, making the most out of our desperation.

I said in the chat room during the game that I wish I could have the opportunity to see Argentina score the first goal in a match against Brazil and since DUNGA took over for them, they have always scored first (except for that 0-0 in Belo Horizonte in this WCQ).

The only time it was different was during the Olympics, but I'm not counting that match because it wasn't the senior national team from both countries.

Roy said it during our podcast: 'I'm concerned about Brazil's set-pieces'.

Three balls flew to our area in the first half = two goals and a last gasp save from ANDÚJAR.

From kick-off until the very last second of the match, Brazil looked extremely comfortable with their game-plan.

Ten men behind the ball, Luis FABIANO probably a little bit more forward and then simply wait for Argentina to explore their limited avenues on very reduced spaces.

Being two goals down, Jesús DATOLO made it two goals in two appearances for Argentina and we all sensed that we could have gained momentum and maybe even cause a surprise and make a comeback.

It wasn't to be. Brazil launched one successful counter-attack in the second half and that was it. Brilliant assist from KAKA, lovely finish from Luis FABIANO and another mountain to climb for Argentina.

I thank goodness that Perú and Colombia won on Saturday, or else we would really be fifth and seriously risking elimination.

Paraguay is up next and they just defeated Bolivia 1-0 at home with a goal from a penalty-kick. They are not in their best form, but they always get the best out of them against us and the Defensores del Chaco is a very tricky venue for us.

I like our chances against Paraguay better than I liked us against Brazil before the game (and if you heard the podcast, you know how I was feeling).

It's all to play for and we still have the advantage for fourth place over Colombia and Ecuador.

Chile came back to draw with Venezuela and that's good news for us because had Venezuela won it, they would also be on 20 points and knocking at our doors too.

We'll discuss those things in a future podcast (you're welcome to take part on it. Send an e-mail to Right now, I'm more interested in hearing what you have to say after another defeat to the old enemy.

Do I want Diego out now? No. I don't. Don't get me wrong. I'm not happy with a lot of things he is doing, but to fire him now would be a complete mess.

I wouldn't curse if he decides to leave, provided all things go bananas against Paraguay on Wednesday, but I'm 100% behind the team and I still think he needs time to work with the team.

Right...I'll write more tomorrow. I'm dead tired right now.


Bostero Forever said...

Next game, someone to tell Messi that the 9 mongers with the blue and white shirt that desperately run around him are his companions..!
O.K with the Superstar in Barcelona, but what abstruse influence befall upon him when he puts the argentine shirt?
And another message for Diego: we all love him, and it's all right from the animic and spiritual point of view but a little tactic..? Just a little strategy..? Something like the ABC of how to stand up against a corner, how to position the team for a counterattack..? Basic things like that.

sirus said...

fuckin bad day... extremely... uuuh....

Raj said...


1. Is the quality of the local Argentina league really bad or is it that Maradona picks the wrong players. Everyone spoke so high about Battalagia and Otamandi. They have certain basics wrong.

2. I understand your point that if a new manager comes now it is going to be difficult to manage but will we ever qualify with Veron being the pivot of the team. When has he ever played well with the national team?

3. I felt like Messi looked completely frustrated today as he was played out of position. There is no one in the team playing at his wavelength. Is there anyway the team will play to atleast half his level. There was so many good passes he made but either he was not getting the ball back inspite of being in perfect position or players were moving in the wrong direction. It was like Ibra-messi combination in braca match.

4. Tevez game has been getting worser after 2007 and Mascherano seems to be playing the worst football of his career? Your comments


Anonymous said...

i have something to say why Argentine players could play as the same way as they do with their respective clubs..

Argentina has the worst defense ever..missing someone like aiyala.gabi milito....

Argentina & Brasil juntos said...

La defensa argentina no tiene roce internacional; me refieron a los defensores de Velez Sarfield.
A su vez, falta "trabajo", más tácticas, variantes, etc.
Fue justa la victoria.
Saludos cordiales.

Dark Joker said...

WTF you said...i dont understand

Anonymous said...

I keep watching comments ...but there is lack of one type of comment,..

IF you look closely to the last 7 Goals Argentina has received,
ANDUJAR is not in the right position,..and do a bad timing in covering holes,...i want him OUT!

bring Federico Vilar!

King Aguero said...

I personally thought Gago was missed during this game against Brazil u need a midfielder thats everywhere and is pretty aggressive and i think Gago brings that to every game besides Mascherano has been terrible for a while and he had a poor game today

As far as the NT goes either an overhaul or Julio Batista is the only answers i have for you! Batista knew how to use these players, outplayed Dunga, and you all saw progression from game to game during the Olympics and i still think its not too late for him to takeover but even if Argentina dont qualify Maradona will not be sacked and thats a guarantee folks

Tevez is not NT material hes done i rather have Saviola back at least he has a better IQ besides thats exactly what this teams needs communication, IQ, leadership, creative ability, passing ability so in other words

Samuel, Gonzalo, Garay, Fazio, Higuain, Belluschi, Pastore, Di Maria, Zarate, Insua, Zabaleta

And Maradona might need to stop making this a love fest and selecting best friends, lovers, kissers and start selecting some real players with real balls

Dark Joker said...

totally agree with u King Aguero....we have clueless & hopeless

Rune said...

It hurts so much to lose at home to Brazil. The game was VERY easy to predict, like always against Brazil. Set-pieces and counter attacks. BANG! Our defence was terrible in the sitations that led to 0-1 and 0-2. We know that they are incredibly dangerous at set-pieces, and it should be possible to defend properly in those situation in such a big game. I also think Andujar should have done better with the second goal.
Tevez paired with Messi....we've said it so many times...this will NEVER work. A terrible choice by Diego. And like most of us know deep in our hearts, Veron is not the future for this team...he does some nice things, and some stupid things, like Veron always does, but he is not the man we need!! Messi was actually fantastic for big parts of the game...if you look at some of the things he did, how he dribbled past so many players time after time, it's obvious that he's the best player in the world. BUT he very seldom gets in to scoring positions in these type of games for the NT. And I believe it's all down to a complete lack of game plan from the so called NT coach. There is no plan at all!!! Just give the ball to Veron or Messi and pray for the best.
Datolo was good, great goal, worked very hard. Heinze also worked very hard, I'll give him that, but my God he is a very limited player...and Diego even played the poor guy in the wrong position.

ZiggY said...

Im very pissed... this is not the Argentina i fell in love with. Maradona being coach is ridiculous! Argentina have no rhythm, no game plan, no strategy, no consistency and no hope under this crack head.

There is absolutely no positive to take from this encounter. Argentina are a mess, and it doesnt even have to be this way!

Anyway we cannot change anything. Like Seba said, we cannot take off Diego now, its too late. But i will say one thing. IF by some miracle (yes, i have to use this word) Argentina qualify to the WC, then if Diego really loves the NT and respects his country, he should step down.

Bring back Bielsa or Peckerman.. hell i'd even prefer Hector Cuper over this clown!

Joe said...

Only you have an idea how much it hurts. To loose against Brazil the team i despise the most is not good.

Some reflections...

1. Maradona talks to damn much!!!! Always reavels his lineups and sometimes his tactics.

2. I love Maradona but for me he is more like a motavator then a coach. I really do not see that he has the tactical ability to be smarter then the opposite coach.

3. It does not seem like we have a gameplan. The only gameplan that i could see was sending Heinze up the flank. It is to much play through the middle.

4. Our Defense was awful. To let Luisao head the ball in like that its no ok. I really do not know if we are deploying man to man marking or zonal.

5. This is the most disturbing with the game and the team in overall. THE ARE TO FUCKING STATIC. Nobody are making runs. If we counterattack everyone stands still most of the time to get the ball and then turn. I like the idea of three strikers, but when Veron gets the ball make runs sow you can open up the defense.

6. Brazil did not play a good game, they played an extremly defensive game, and had that litte extra luck with them.

7.I really do think we have a great team, but not a great tactical coach.

8. I would like us to try a diffrent formation, the Bielsa formation. 3-3-1-3.

Milito Demichellis Heinze

Zanetti Macherano GAGO


Teves Milito Aguero

One can only dream, and i dream about a world cup.

ZiggY said...

This is what Argentina should look like at the moment:


Carizzo, Gonzalo R., Burdisso, Zabaleta, Gago, Mascherano, Di Maria, L.Gonzalez, Maxi, Datolo, Tevez, Milito, Lisandro

Take out Diego and we'll have Riquelme back in the formula, plus the chance for other stars to shine.

Anonymous said...

After a long long day for me I finally can sit back and think about the game. Seba you are right, only way we can really beat Brasil is that if we score first. If they score we play into their hands. What did Messi do? NOTHING. Brasil has him figured out, or under Maradona and Basile. I am sorry but it is time to change up this entire team around, keep a few players. Bring back, Samuel, use Garay, use Higuain, let Maradona and Riquelme kiss and make up. Maybe use Di Maria when he gets back from his 4 game ban. If this is the team we see week in and week out, then we will have major problems if we manage to make the WC.

Players that need to go and not really return or take up roster space.
7-Cata Diaz
10-and feel free to throw in names.

Players that need to be called up. Or given the chance to get games in for a entire game.

1-First and most important I feel. CAMBIASSO.
7-G.Milito- See how that knee is holding up.

8-Need Riquelme on this team. Slows us down or not, but the guy I think is still the leading goal scorer for Argentina in the WCQ and missed oh what last 4 games we have scored you know how many goals? 3!Drop 3 of those games. Hey he scores from set pieces and sets players up. This team is horrible on set pieces without Riquelme.

9-GK in Ustari or Romero.

Ideal team that starts.
Kun(Could be replaced for a Winger like Di Maria or a holding MF)


Anonymous said...

any official comments from Diego after the match?

Allan said...

It is time to call up Higuain and get rid of Tevez. We can't play Messi and Tevez up front and expect to score against any decent team.

salvio supporter said...

Don't be so pessimistic. It was just those two unforgivable deffensive mistakes (what were you expecting?) that resulted in the first two goals. Now I understand pretty well why brazilians hate Dunga, and they are quite right.

Argentina played "well". If it weren't for those two goals, the score would now be 1-1, or even a win. I know we lost, but c'mon, it wasn't that terrible. It's just the freaking deffense.

Let me say this: Messi truly is one motherfucking god. Wait for him.

Mohd said...

guys, for the name of god stop attacking messi. he is the ONLY player that looked like having a chance of creating something...HERE ME OUT:
1. well because with barca there is a decent team around him.
2. there is a system.
3. there is a plan. he is part of the system.
4. he is part of bigger tactics.

with Arg..did you see the game? he was alone. at times he would get the ball surrounded by 3 brazil players and he could not find a teammate. there is no system. there are no tactics. the way Arg attacked yesterday is the same when i play mini football with my friends.

on top of that. i do not give a damn if aguero, milito, tevez are doing wonders with their teams. with the NT they suck time after time. WE NEED ZARATE AND HIGUAIN. and we need SAMUEL in defence.

the central defence was horrible. the third goal was a disaster. what defender gets beaten by a very obvious pass like this?

well this is what we have to live with. THIS IS OUR SACK OF *** COACH THAT WE HAVE...


Anonymous said...

brazil scored 5 goals from dead balls in 5 games at the confed cup, they seem to score in every game from set pieces. i remember in wc 2006 argentina was good with dead balls, scoring 4 (1 was disallowed). if the team isn't able to play good football, they must rely on dead balls and defence.

i am sure argentina will make it to the wc. ecuador and colombia will fail.

the question is: is argentina's team not good enough or is the coach bad or is somithing else? however i am sure argentina will improve at the wc.

Vitalij from germany

Paulina said...

It's NOT TOO LATE to get rid of Maradona.

This isn't rocket science. Being a good football manager isn't going to get you a nobel prize -- there are fundamental basics that can be instilled in this team that would improve the situation.

ANY coach who is organized can have this team playing better. These players are excellent professionals who've played many systems, and know what to do . They just need someone with clarity of thought.

I don;t think that they believe in Maradona at all. At least not as a coach. It must be incredibly frustrating to hear your manager say "score one and then you'll score three". If I were the player, that comment would have pissed me off. It's not as if they were playing the US at there. It was Brazil, for chrissakes.

Batista had many of these players for the Olympics, he can step in without starting from wholecloth. Seriously -- politically changing out Maradona might be a mess. But in football terms, it could only imporve the situation.

Sebastian said...

Many many many interesting comments and some very good points being made.

I wish I could talk about all of them, but the first I'd like to mention is: BATISTA????

Are you sure??? He failed BIG time to qualify for the Youth World Cup in Venezuela. The U20's, people! The event we've been winning almost every time since 1995 and we don't even qualify? That's failure.

He's not a great manager. In the Olympics, it was silly the difference we had in terms of quality with the rest of the teams in contention. And against Brazil...guess what happened? We scored first, people! We got all the breaks we needed in that game and we won it. But that Brazil side was nowhere near the one we faced yesterday when it comes to quality, experience and physical dominance.

I also saw a lot of comments from people calling for several injured players. I think that's an unfair point to make.

And one thing that stands out for me in the last series of comments. Mohd? How can you defend MESSI like that, saying it's not his fault and it's because there is no system in Argentina and then you completely kill MILITO, TEVEZ and AGÜERO and you fail to point out that they suffer from the same situation than MESSI.

I'm not saying they are better than MESSI. Of course not. They're not. But I don't think you made a valid point saying they have failed time after time when a couple of sentences before you blame the system for MESSI's inability to show his Barcelona form with Argentina.

I'm not done talking about the game and our national team. You'll hear more in our next and very heated podcast.

Stay tuned and thanks for writing so many comments!

johnny said...

A million post mortems and I doubt whether any of them will have the slightest impact on Maradona. It's hard to know where to start with my take on this mess, but here goes:

Argentina has some very talented players but also some obvious weaknesses talent-wise. They are mediocre and without much depth at the back. Andujar is an improvement on Carrizo, but certainly not a world class keeper. Heinze is a tiring retread. The remainder of the starters in the back vary from pretty good to useless. The midfield has one world class player in Mascherano (who played poorly last night) and other guys who either don't fit in Maradona's "system" or are only fair players, or are past their sell date. Veron ain't gonna cut it in high stakes international competetion. And, most distressingly, there is little to no communication or chemistry between a boatload of talented strikers. Attacking strikers are Argentina's strength but currently wasted. All that said, Argentina has played excellent futbol in the past, even with a squad without great talent in every position. BUT, to be able to do that, you must have a strong, effective coach who makes sure he has the best players available, makes sure they play as a coherent "team" and has a sense of strategy, tactics and also the ability to change the gameplan when necessary.

Needless to say, Maradona is not providing what is needed for this squad to be successful. It's his team and the idea that Bilardo would be a tactical assistant is a distant fantasy. I honestly don't think if Maradona has more time to work with the team that anything will change. He has proven to be too stubborn in so many areas, without coaching experience and it doesn't look like there is going to be any sort of miracle where he all of a sudden morphs into a coach anything close to the player he was.

As Seba says, replacing him today would probably do more harm than good. But, if the match in Paraguay doesn't bring three points then I think an emergency call should go out to someone to replace him. Bianchi maybe, but I really don't know.

Abs said...

Leave Maradona alone, the guy need three things: Time, space, and let him fucking work in peace. How do you expect someone to get you the WC before even being there. Just give the man a fucking chance, he isn't god !!

Those people who are asking to bring in Pekerman, who quit, Couper, who always end up second, or Batisita who faild to qualify to the WC ... etc.
I don't remember you putting any of them under pressure for losing 3 games .. I know the games Mardona lost aren't easy to just let go, but the guy didn't even got his chance.

Enough said with Maradona.. Back to our formatoin, which I am sure that if it is up to Maradona he would play 3-4-3 like everyone would love to, but that formation didn't work with the Bialsa, and Maradona needed to do something, he didn't have that enough time, but I can promise you that Maradona is the only one who can bring the WC back to Argentina, coz the first thing he'll do once he got the CHANCE and TIME is to set up his formations and work without any pressure that he already have before taking control of the national team.

People asking Messi, Tevez, Kun, and god knows who else to fuck off from the national team coz they are simply not giving what they are giving with there teams. We'll if you just look to there teams, they all play 3 up front, while with the national team they hardly play 2 up front, which make it very hard for them (I can't remember any team played against us with less than 7 defender)

Our problem is our flanks, we have too old players playing in there, Zanitte and Henzie can't give any more, it is about time to bring in the youth, or even change to 3 center back with 2 DM. Which again bring us back to the 3-4-3

The player selection for the 4-4-2 Maradona played against Brazil was good enough. When you put in mind the huge number of banned and injured players (plus players who quit the national team or beacome old enough to brought back in).

I don't wanna give a list of names that Maradona should call or elemnate from the national team, coz that won't make a difference, ad no am not trying to make Maradona look like did nothing wrong, but the man didn't got his chance, and it would be a real shame if he quit or got sack from the national team.

He'll deliver !!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

here are the right players gonzalo rodriguez,garay,pareja,samuel,demichelis,zabaleta,jonas ,mascherano,banega,cambiasso,gago,ledesma,pastore,aimar,maxi rodriguez,di maria,messi,aguero,higuain,zarate,riquelme,lisandro,diego milito,oscar ustari,sergio romero,fabian assman

pisingh said...

Abs-not sure what ur on about friend, Maradona was a total sell off of ARG football for money- he has no tactical background or coaching that you can quote in his defence. We are talking about ARG here, with many talented coaches ignored in favour of bringing the $$$ to the AFA- Grondona's pension probably swelling in the meantime.

johnny said...

I hate to say it, but I believe pisingh. Grondona is the devil incarnate, a mafia based piece of slime, who only gives a shit about about Argentine futbol if it makes him and his buddies money. A cancer, who saw an opportunity to make Argentina more visible on the world stage with Diego as manager. A walking, talking obscenity.

messidona19 said...

I took me a full day to process this humiliation and now i'm back.

I absolutely agree 1000% on Jack's comment. I was going to write the same thing.
I also agree with Seba that Batista is not the answer as he failed miserably in the qualification for the u20 world cup.
I also want to point out a previous post i wrote about last week when i said that Argentina are doing 2 mistake in approaching this game. First was that they were talking too much crap to the press before the match itself (same how Madrid players talked before Barcelona and Liverpool matches last season and got smoked)
and the second was that they were fully concentrating on the match vs. Brazil and not on the Paraguay match too.
We have to thank goodness that Ecuador and Uruguay lost although now there's a 3rd team behind our asses and that is Colombia. But I was looking at the standings and I realized that if we beat Paraguay and Peru then we're pretty much there. so hope is still not lost and we have to get 3 points in Paraguay although it will be hard.

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