Monday, August 06, 2007

COCO to give us a hint of the future, tomorrow

Quiet, very quiet here lately. The Apertura (Opening) tournament have started this weekend in Argentina (with a lovely 2-0 win for Racing!) and the main European competitions are about to get underway (with some of them, already started).

The U17 World Cup in Korea will see our boys playing in 12 days, the ladies will play the World Cup in September in China and let's not forget about the FIBA Americas tournament (Argentina will debut against Uruguay in 17 days!) and the Rugby World Cup (v France in the opening match -September 7th-). A really busy end of the year in every front.

But the most urgent thing in terms of news, surprisingly, might come from the most famous Albicelestes, the football team.

Why?

Because tomorrow could be a very important day for a lot of players. Alfio BASILE will announce the players that will go with him to Oslo to face Norway in a friendly match to be played on August 20th.

It is important because the Copa America, supposedly, meant the end of the international career for many of our players. COCO said he will only be able to use those who play in European clubs.

So...with AYALA already announcing he won't play for Argentina anymore and after another disappointment in a big competition, BASILE could introduce some new faces as he looks for the team that will start the World Cup Qualifiers in October.

Before that (September 11th) there will be another friendly match (v Australia in Melbourne). But it is too early to be worried about that.

Let's see...

I suspect that a lot of the names that we saw at the Copa America will be back with COCO in Oslo.

Just as an excercise, this is the list of our squad for the Copa America. I'll write my views and whether I think each player will be called or snubbed by COCO tomorrow:

Goalkeepers:

Roberto ABBONDANZIERI - NO. I think it could be the case of COCO opting to call up a long-term keeper.

Juan Pablo CARRIZO - Now at Lazio, he should be on the list.

Agustín ORIÓN - Still in San Lorenzo. Won't be called because COCO is forced to use European-based players. So USTARI should be on the list (now at Getafe).

Defenders:

Javier ZANETTI - Logic says "don't call him. He won't be around for 2010", but logic also says: "He is our best option at right back and he is still fit". Whatever happens, I'll understand COCO. Plus...this list doesn't mean these players are going to South Africa 2010. Does it?

Roberto AYALA - He announced he won't play for Argentina anymore. End of story.

Gabriel HEINZE - Having troubles to move to Liverpool. But he should be called. Maybe to play as a central defender -his natural position- and cover for AYALA.

Gabriel MILITO - The new FC Barcelona signing is a no-brainer for COCO. Will be on the list.

Daniel DÍAZ - He has more options now that AYALA won't be around and is elegible because he is a Getafe player now.

Hugo IBARRA - Still at Boca. Won't be on the list.

Nicolás BURDISSO - Very quiet, like George HARRISON, but he is always there and his presence is a key to our defense. Will be on the list.

Midfielders:
Luis GONZÁLEZ - Wanted by Valencia and Real Madrid in Spain. Wanted by Everton in England. COCO is lucky to have Lucho and he'll be on the list, no doubt.

Juan Román RIQUELME - He doesn't know where he will play. If he is still without a club by the time of this friendly, then why not? It'll depend on that.

Javier MASCHERANO - No chance to leave MASCHERADONA out.

Esteban CAMBIASSO - Should also be on the list.

Fernando GAGO - COCO has a soft spot for Pintita, so expect to see the Real Madrid midfielder on the list.

Juan Sebastián VERÓN - Back in Estudiantes (he scored in a 3-0 win over Banfield), he won't be around to face Norway.

Pablo AIMAR - If he is fit, he should be on the list. Especially if Roman doesn't make it.

Forwards:

Lionel MESSI - There are more chances that Argentina will play in red that to see MESSI out of the list.

Hernán CRESPO - What a huge question mark! Will COCO test with another striker? Will he still rely on Hernán? I don't know what to think. It is, somehow, a similar case to ZANETTI. I'll be fine whatever COCO decides.

Diego MILITO - He should be on the list. Whatever the decision on CRESPO is. At least as a back-up. In my opinion, he didn't have too many opportunities yet.

Carlos TEVEZ - We should ask this question to Sir Alex FERGUSON. It should be a FIFA date so the Scottish manager should not have a saying in this one. Carlitos will be on the list.

Rodrigo PALACIO - The Lightning will be terrorising defenders in the Argentine league. So don't expect to see his Jedi hair-cut in Norway.

So?

What about the new faces?

Here are some that I think will be called up and some that stand a chance...

Apart from USTARI (already mentioned when I wrote about the keepers), I'd say:

Goalkeepers:

Sergio ROMERO - Very very young and just arrived in Holland (AZ Alkmaar). But had an impressive Youth World Cup and could be called up as a third keeper to gain a little experience in sharing the dressing room with the big boys. If COCO snubs PATO, then he could call USTARI, CARRIZO and ROMERO.

Defenders:

Javier PINOLA - If COCO tries HEINZE as a central defender, he might use PINOLA as left-back. After all the marriage and last-minute desaffection before Copa America, PINOLA is due to have a chance. I would love to see him called up.

Ezequiel GARAY - I admit I've seen very little from him (couldn't watch a lot of La Liga last season). But the 21-year old seems to be one of the best prospects in a line (defensive) in which we had problems during the Copa America and will have problems in the future if we struggle to find new blood to cover for the old guard.

Federico FAZIO - OK, OK, could be early. But we are testing. This very very tall 19-year old, just crowned as Youth World Cup champion, could benefit a lot from a first glance at being with the big guns. I see him as a central defender with a body made to be able to deal with modern football. It's been a while since we had a central defender like him (in terms of physical presence). Will he become a starter for Sevilla this season?

Midfielders:

Maxi RODRIGUEZ - Enough! We want MAXI back! We want MAXI back! We want MAXI back! A starter any day of the week!

Andrés D'ALESSANDRO - I doubt it very very very much. But depending on the RIQUELME-AIMAR situation and knowing that COCO will use a play-maker, he could have an opening.

Sebastián LETO - I don't know if he'll be a starter at Liverpool. But he scored a goal in a friendly the other day and he's in Europe, he's young, versatile, why not COCO, why not?

Forwards:

Javier SAVIOLA - Now at Real Madrid, and with a shot at being a starter, El Conejito should be back with the Albiceleste. It was a mystery to me to see him out of the Copa squad. Now there are no excuses. He should be in Oslo.

Gonzalo HIGUAIN - In my opinion, he should be behind: CRESPO-MILITO-TEVEZ-SAVIOLA-AGÜERO-PALACIO-LAVEZZI and probably a couple of more players. I wouldn't want to see him called up. He can go and play for France for as much as I'm concerned. But he could be called up by COCO.

Sergio AGÜERO - Shone at the Youth World Cup (top-scorer and golden ball), will be the main striking force at Atletico Madrid this season (with TORRES moving to Anfield). Why not another chance for Kun with the big boys?

Ezequiel LAVEZZI - Tough times. Just arrived in newly-promoted Napoli, but a call-up could be in order as he could become a PALACIO-like option for COCO.

Lisandro LOPEZ - One of my favourites. Was crucial for Porto to win the league in the last two seasons (especially in the last one). He seems to be adapted to the European pace and he has a knack for scoring. He is a long shot, but could be worth it.

So you think I'm way out of the line?

So you think there are a lot of players I'm missing?

I think you can help out and send me your picks and your opinions on those I brought to the table.

63 comments:

Anonymous said...

hmmm... i wanna see Zaba in RB, Banega and Sosa in midfield...

my starting eleven

GK: Ustari
Def:Zaba, Buridsso, Milito, Pinola
Midfield:Lucho,Masche, Gago
CAM:Messi
Striker:Tevez and Milito

johnny said...

Seba-Looks on the mark to me ! What's the deal with Jose Cruz ? Is he out of favor ?

Allan said...

I think Basile should be getting a team ready for the 2008 Olympics. Those he had problems with or are not yet proven and are born after 1st Jan 1985 he should get them into the Olympics team. I want us to defend our gold medal there successfully so we ought to prepare well. I want us to beat the yellow team, too.

In my opinion, Higuain must go to China, if he refuses, then he can fxxk off to France. Sebastien Leto should go, too.

Anonymous said...

Maxi RODRIGUEZ ??? aganist those giants from Norway???????? yes you can debate that the Czech's are just as big but I do not know about Maxi RODRIGUEZ on the NTL team, he is a field good sorry BUT when the 2010 comes around and if Argentina bumps into a Dutch team or so, how will he do?

Roy said...

A quick question, what about Sorin? Im pretty sure he didn't make the Copa squad because he and Veron don't see eye to eye. So why wouldn't he be called up now?

As for goalkeeper... Honestly, I would rather see Romero instead of Abbondanzieri. I know a goalkeepers confidence is fragile and everything(with me being a goalkeeper, been one since I was a kid), but something has to be done. You can't keep losing or tying games to please the goalkeeper(I am in no way blaming Pato for the loss versus Brazil, but lets face it he showed no signs of being good in nets during the Copa). Since Romero probably won't get the call, I'll go with the obvious Pato and/or Ustari.

In the back, I'll take Zanetti, Heinze, Milito and Sorin. Not sure how well that would go but I still think Sorin deserves a place on the team.

Midfield is tough. We have to many options. All the ones that Seba named can EASILY get called up(and might). Cambiasso needs to redeem himself for the Copa, because like Pato, I didn't see anything special. I'll go with the obvious. Gonzalez, Riquelme, Mascherano, Cambiasso, Gago and Aimar to get the call. Who'll start? I'm not sure, but I will say this. I definatly think Gago deserves to start. In my opinion he took a backseat to Veron and why? Veron SHOULD of been the substitute. You go for the youth in Gago because he's still young and can still learn.

Forwards will be a tough one too. Saviola deserves a spot, Messi, Crespo, Tevez and Milito aswell. I love Crespo to death and I'll be biased for this one time, Crespo should start. Will he? We'll see.

-Arg10

Anonymous said...

+Higuain is nothing but a little punk, if he gets called up sit him on the bench for about 5 straight games then let him play. Hey he better score 15+goals for Real if he wants that#9 from Crespo. Too many greats have had that number and done very well(NOT PALERMO!). I will mold myself mid way through the year to get myself into football again since Copa America, but whenever I watch our Youth it brings me so much joy.

,Jack

gonzo said...

man just reading all of these guys names and knowing that they are on our side brings tears of joy, god bless argentina for the incredible talent we enjoy. its just staggering, i hope they all get their shot... except higuain :)

andaman said...

anonymous...sure u don't mean Maxi MORALEZ the U20 World Champion. Maxi M. maybe 5ft. something but I adore him. Heard he might be going off to FC Moscow. That would be bad news for Argentine football fans. He scored a beauty against River in the clausura.

Anyway, I think Maxi RODRIGUEZ will do fine with them Czech or Norway.

johnny said...

Right, I read today that Maxi Moralez could be headed to FC Moscow. Ouch. Not as bad as Qatar, but not good. Speaking of Qatar, it looks like Reinaldo "Mr Baritone" Merlo will be coaching Al Saad. He will have Zarate on the squad. I will soon begin working on a master plan to become a multi mega billionaire and invest all my money in keeping Argentine football players in Argentina. I know I am stating the obvious, but it irks me that Argentina is such a fertile area for players, and then all these moneyed countries scoop them up like vultures. Russia, Qatar, Greece, Turkey ! No offense to anyone of any nationality, but it is a CRYING SHAME ! To use a USA baseball example, Argentina is like a double A minor league club. We see wonderful players come through and then say goodbye as they head to "the show". There oughta be a law !!!!!

John said...

Seba you know your football very well indeed so why would someone wish to argue on that? Not me definitely.

I think it is due time that COCO should reconsider the likes ZANETTI and CRESPO and I think it it due time for young blood to come into the picture. Don't get me wrong here, both ZANETTI and CRESPO have been great servant to the blue and white but due to their age by 2010, perhaps a little bit of freshness would do good for the team.

I do agree 100% that PINOLA should be given the chance after all the trouble that he had to endure during the season break. Federico FAZIO sounds the like the type central defender that we have been missing for a long time.

D'ALESSANDRO must also be given the opportunity again and I'm still puzzled with COCO's attitude towards him ever since he became the NT coach.

Without a doubt Kun AGUERO must be featured heavily in future matches and Lisandro LOPEZ can be great alternative to Diego MILITO.

As for the other names that you've mentioned with time on their side, it just might be too early to tell but from the way it looks like, it is great to know that the Albiceleste is not short of talent and gift all corners

Andaman, I hope what you've heard about Maxi MORALEZ is just mere rumours because the last time one of our great prospect went to Russia, it was more of a great nightmare rather than a great beginning. In case if you're wondering who am I referring too? It's Fernando CAVENAGHI.

Did someone mentioned the name Jose SOSA, who will playing for Bayern this coming season? Yes lets hope he has some great performance and so that he wont be off the radar.

And finally the one that I would love to see back in the Albiceleste to death is Maxi RODRIGUEZ. Yes he must be called up and yes he must play.

Now I would like to share with everyone with something big happening in Malaysia. Starting from the 8th until the 19th we will be hosting the Champions Youth Cup. Want to know more about it than check out the following link for more info

http://www.thechampionsyouthcup.com/

One thing I can tell you especially for all you Boca Juniors lovers, is that......

They are in town!!!!

I'll do my best to catch some of the matches at the stadium and maybe give you guys some post match reports. Really looking forward to this.

Anonymous said...

I pretty much agree with the players you listed (and who should go and who shouldn't) so there isn't much to argue. The only addition I would add (that I can think of at the top of my head) is Leo Franco as another goalkeeper option. The guy had a good season with Atletico and was not that far behind Pato. Is there any reason that Coco might snub him? Considering that he is playing in Europe and is very good (despite his penalty shootout in 06) I think he should be included.

John, I'm so jealous that you can see Boca play right now (live). There were here in the states for the Copa Sudamericana or something like that (in Arizona) but I couldn't go out there to see them. So sad.

-argentinafan

johnny said...

Argentinafan,

Well, you missed very little in Boca's first match against Rosario Central. They looked listless and had difficulty getting into scoring position. Reasons ? No Roman ? Trying to get motivated again after the great Libertadores run ? I don't know. Banega, though I love him, is not Riquelme !

Rio said...

should be included:
Ezeqyuek Garay, Javier Pinola, Pablo Zabeleta, Maximiliano Rodriguez, Jose Ernesto Sosa (Napoli), Jonás Gutiérrez (Mallorca), Hugo Mariano Pavone (Real Betis), Javier Mascherano, Oscar Ustari, Javier Saviola, Gonzalo Higuaín, Fernando Rubén Gago.

if training schedule allowed:
Ezequiel Lavezzi (Napoli), Lionel Messi, Gabriel Milito, Pablo Aimar, Diego Milito, Nicolás Burdisso, Esteban Cambiasso, Hernán Crespo, Javier Zanetti, Juan Pablo Carrizo (passport issue).

mentioned recently:
Iván Gabriel Heinze, Fabricio Coloccini.

excluded:
Carlos Tevez, Juan Román Riquelme, Reberto Ayala (retired).

Rio said...

1/2 hour till he gives da list :D

Rio said...

when will aguero get a call!?!!?????

Rio said...

and seba, you failed to consider one important issue: strategy.

Basile plays 4-3-1-2 and very rarely 4-2-3-1. and 4-4-2 when he has no CAM choice. So some of the people on your list, for example, Leto, is very unlikely in the near future (within Basile's reign).

The left back problem, aka. Sorin and Clemente.
Pekerman's choice was go to 3-4-1-2 so he has many options of secondary playmaker. Basile plays 4-3-1-2 only so his choice was dropping an outside mid and use Veron. The main difference between these 2 approaches is the right outside mid choice, Maxi or Veron.
If Veron type of option is exercised, width is necessary on the right to give 2ndary playmaker support when necessary. In the other case, one of the holding midfielders would be a likely candidate for secondary playmaker, and Maxi will provide support from the right. Therefore the left winger needs to be defensive and that's where we would see Sorin or Clemente Rodriguez.

johnny said...

Higuain injured and won't play for a month.

Roy said...

Has the list been released yet?

Rio said...

ya johnny, just saw higuain's news. sucks for him really, I don't think most of us cared though :D

list is supposed to be given by 6pm, haven't heard anything yet.

Rio said...

Carrizo
Ustari
Romero

Burdisso
Zanetti
Milito
Garay
Diaz (Getafe)
Insua

Coloccini
Lucho
Ledesma (Cristian)
Mascherano
Maxi
Sosa
Gago

Saviola
Milito
Messi
Lavezzi

not sure which insua but likely the KOP one.

allan ng said...

Yes! Saviola in the team!

No! Not Coloccini.... not again...

And no Tevez???

Roy said...

My guess for Crespo, Tevez and Heinze's abscence is because Coco dosn't want too many strikers and he knows what Crespo and Tevez are capable of doing. As for Heinze... I'm not sure. I've always been a Heinze fan and I think he did pretty good in the Copa. So I'm not sure.

I guess this means the end for Sorin? Anyone know why he hasn't been on the squad? Seba? Anyone?

Rio said...

:) I'd like to hear some opinions on why Sorin and Clemente are excluded too.

johnny said...

I've no idea about why no Sorin or Clemente. I do wonder if Coco is avoiding doing battle with Sir Alex re: Tevez and Heinze. I thought Coloccini was a slow thing of the past ? At any rate, one can question roster picks for the friendlies til the cows come home. I think it is good for Coco to see alot of different players in different combinations. After the Copa I don't give a shit if we win friendlies anyway. Just find the players who give their all and work as a team.

Rio said...

when I saw the list, I almost puked.

Rio said...

need to note. this friendly was scheduled when Bielsa was coaching. Pekerman ignored it and now coco is picking it up.
I don't give a shit how this is a match to test players and what not. The fact is, some of these players are total fucking crap. And some others are not up to standard, not even up to the European club team standards. What difference does it make to use players that have no NT future rather than those that are older and have not much time left for internationals?

And FIFA not permitting players to leave club teams? I've heard excuses better than that by a long shot.

Rio said...

and don't forget for one second people, WC qualifiers start in little more than 2 month!

johnny said...

Who is people Rio ?

Roy said...

Yeah, I'm not pleased with the list either. Diaz has no future with the NT and I've never even heard of Garay. Coloccini is done for in my opinion, but Im willing to give him another chance.

Ledesma is the same as Garay in my book. Sosa I haven't seen that much from, but I doubt he'll play another match. Saviola, Milito and Messi I accept. It'll be good to test those 3 out. Question is who gets to start? Milito or Saviola... Or all 3? Lavezzi well... He'll just be used to warm up the bench.

johnny said...

Gotta disagree with some of that, with the exception of Coloccini. I like Diaz. Maybe that makes me a Boca "homer", but I think he is as talented as the rest. Sosa is also a talented guy in the Aimar mold. He was very impressive with Estudiantes de la Plata and the best player on the field in the boring 0-0 friendly with Chile that I witnessed firsthand. C. Ledesma is also a very talented guy. Garay I haven't seen play and same for Lavezzi. I still think seeing alot of players is a good idea and seeing how they play together is helpful. We will kick butt in the qualifiers.

Rio said...

go to my site if you want to see their positions.

people = those that want to see new players showing their faces.

the useless players include: Coloccini - shit
Lucho - shit
C.Ledesma - if you wanted to see him then you probably haven't watched much of his games, or you haven't realized we don't need MORE FUCKING HOLDING MIDFIELDERS
Diego Milito - shit
Cata Diaz - RB and not very good RWB. We have shit tons of RWB and RB at home, we don't need these 2nd rated fullbacks to play right.
Insua - Way too young. Despite his U-20 success, this kid has not proven himself against grown ups. He started total of 2 games for liverpool last year, along side Paletta. Those 2 turned the games to shit and liverpool never played them again.

If the list doesn't grow, then Maxi or Sosa will play CAM, the other will team with Lucho for outside-mids/wingers. That kind of attacking midfield will not break Norway down.

Norway is tuned for european qualifiers. They're tied 2nd in their group! These vikings will shut us down in the air and they are at home...

Winning the match aside, to really test our offense we must control the tempo of the game. That's not going to happen with this lineup.

Besides that. The priority right now is to find a suitable LB, especially to find out if a wingback option is available.
Burdisso and Zanetti are capable of that position this we already know. Besides them, the only test subject was Insua. Someone tell me WTF is wrong with Basile. Just so you know, there are already fans started calling him crackhead...

John said...

Argentinafan,

The Boca team that is here in Malaysia is the youth team. The whole tournament involves top clubs from Europe and South America youth teams only.

Perhaps you might have some interesting info about them that you would like to share me. Such as who could be the future star in this team?

Seba said...

Rio, you are mistaking, the "INSUA" COCO called is not EMILIANO, it's FEDERICO, the playmaker.

I don't agree with your concepts about a lot of our players, especially LUCHO and Diego MILITO.

They are VERY FAR from being shit (as you said).

There are plenty of teams in the World that would kill to have a midfielder like Lucho and a finisher like Diego MILITO.

COCO will probably use ZANETTI as a left back (our weakest position by far!). He did great when he played there during the Copa America.

HEINZE doesn't know where he'll play club football this season, so probably COCO is giving him the time to sort it out. PINOLA is injured, why give hope to another left back that you won't use in the future. And who should have COCO called? Name me a couple of suitable left backs?

BURDISSO can also be used there (keeping ZANETTI in his natural right back position).

As far as I'm concerned, there can be thousands calling for COCO's head, I'm still behind him 100%.

I'm 100% behind any manager that makes my Argentina ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK and ATTACK!

I'm confident we will, eventually, find the perfect balance between every line, cracked a smooth defensive system and solve the problems we have these days.

Rio said...

oh shit, he's using pocho. he already signed with america man. isn't this european based only?

Rio said...

in Europe, Sorin and Clemente are left wing backs. If Zanetti still needs testing, then why not Sorin?

Clemente was doing well, he's going to espanyol now, how is he not qualified for the friendly?

there are plenty LB choices at home, if pocho insua can be called, the list will go on.

Lucho had been given alot of chances lately, since the friendlies. He's not done well in any of them (against algeria, they was way over matched and he still didn't do well). He also subbed in several times, didn't make an impact in those either. There are enough chances given to lucho. We need to exercise our other winger and outside mid options.

Diego Milito was the worst defender in Copa America, and he plays a position that we have most potential replacements. His ability in the air is mediocre, his mobility is shit (remember the first goal from brazil? rewatch the first goal and see where milito was. see what he was doing in 2nd goal too while you're at it) and he doesn't have the organizational skill to cap from LCB.

I didn't say anything about Heinze did I? He gave me pretty good impression in the Copa, although he lacks one major criteria argentine NT is looking for from the LB position : Crossing.

the LB is even more of a bitch now considering I was mistaking the Insua. Who is da LB of the future on the team? Who is the RB of the future on the team for that matter...

Anonymous said...

I mad a ass out of myself I meant to be talking about MaxiMoralez, shesh, sorry guys. I deff want to see Maxi Rod back.

,JACK.

Seba said...

Clemente RODRIGUEZ was horrible in London against Brazil (3-0).

SORIN appears to be out of favour with COCO and to be honest, it's been a while since we saw him play at his best.

Pocho INSUA is not playing in Argentina anymore (America, Mexico), so I don't understand why you say there are plenty of LB at home (and I don't think there are!).

And then you are talking about Diego MILITO as if it was Gabriel. Because you are saying he was the worst defender of Copa America...

HEINZE's situation is different, he is trying to pave his way to Liverpool, but FERGUSON doesn't want him to leave and join that club. So HEINZE could go to the justice and seek a way out of Old Trafford (preferably to join Liverpool).

Everyone knows that HEINZE is not one of my favorite players, but you are mentioning his crosses and I can clearly recall AIMAR's goal against USA in the Copa America debut and HEINZE's cross was superb!

The LB of the future for Argentina could very well be Emiliano INSUA. He looked great everytime I saw him play. But he is still very young (U20 World Champion) and he could peak when he is 24 or 25.

Lucho? Top player. Not for nothing he is wanted by Madrid, Valencia and Everton and he is loved at Porto.

Seba said...

Hey Jack! Don't worry, I was an easy mistake to make.

Speaking of Maxi MORALEZ, I'm devastated, he left my beloved Racing Club without our biggest hope and he moved to FC Moscow for a ridiculous fee of 7 million dollars.

If ZARATE is worth 20 millions, or USTARI is worth even more than those 7 million dollars, then I think there is something wrong.

This boys are really ill-advised and I think Maxi is just on his way to the football abbyss.

Forget about him. 3 years in Russia will kill his chances of ever reaching our full national team.

And my Racing Club will now miss him A LOT!

Sad sad day...

Rio said...

any fullback running wing routes becomes defensive liability problem. was zanetti any good against brazil?
the fact is clemente has the speed, and he can support attack from a more defensive position.

Sorin is not out of favor from Basile. He's made example with Pekerman's exclusion. Political reason.

Insua is there to TEMPORARILY REPLACE Riquelme because Roman is in a world of shit right now.
the thing is, players from south america are excluded because they don't live in europe. Then why bringing him but not the others?

Keep in mind, the list does other things than just getting bunch of available players together. If no real excuse yet excluded, that player is on a cold bench. Here, we have Heinze. This means more than just missing a friendly to Heinze. Basile is sending him a message.

The excuse is that Inter and Zaragoza don't want to give up too many players, but Cambiasso, Crespo, Cruz and Aimar should be aware of the potential deeper meaning of the exclusions.

I was obviously talking about Gaby, not Diego Milito. I was going to say something about him, but his brother is the more problematic one. And prove me wrong that he was the worst defender in Copa.

If you're talking about that single cross from Heinze, how about Clemente's crosses? Have you watched his league games?

Real Madrid wanted alot of people, are they all top class players? Lucho's shitty performance was not just 1 game, it was the entire Copa Campaign. against paraguay, when everybody else did well, LUCHO DID NOT!

Now, LB and RB.
I like how you just ignore the age of these players. Mainly Zanetti. Javier Zanetti will be 36 (1 month short of 37) by time of WC, I'm sure a 37 year old can cover left and right, but how much? The list is limited to 23.

Insua is a fullback, not wingback. If we plan on using Roman in WC, and especially if Basile will still be in that chair, then we need support on the left for Roman. We need width on the right for that matter too. You want to tell me Insua is the best the entire argentina can come up with for future LB and RB?

Please get your arguments straight first.

Anonymous said...

Who is going to pull the strings in the middle????

,Jack

Rio said...

and let me refresh your memory a bit on Insua.

In the U-20 WC, Insua started every game because we didn't have any other choice. group matches aside (in the first one he didn't seem competent but the other 2 he did pretty well), against poland, they attacked right wing between Yacob and Insua. Against Mexico, they attacked straight at Insua (dos santos on the right entire game), against chile, they attacked the hole between Fazio and insua, and against Czech, they again attacked our left back and got the goal from it.

Coaching find out where the weak link is and attack there. Insua is the target for a reason.

Rio said...

that other insua that's called is the CAM. playing at roman's place

Anonymous said...

Insua pulling the strings? hmmm, not too sure how we can fit that role. Some say keep Riquelme some say time to move on. I love Riquelme but would not mind a change, have seem too many games from him fadding away also seen him being the best@ his spot. I am so thorn in between this. I hope somebody can pop up soon, but I do like Riquelme's pace, you watch and sometimes get bored then BAM! he will kill you!

Another player I want to see on the team is Di María, I think he is a very solid player, and can not wait to see him with Benfica. He is a tricky lil bastard. We need some body on the wing who can fly,so I beg and prey he will be on the team soon. Look at this video. I also think he did that no look pass to Maxi to score vs Mexico.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qw1kLqIldMA

,Jack

Rio said...

moralez is going to europe. He'll be there tomorrow to sign as a manner of fact. That should be one of our primary targets for future winger. He can play both sides as well.

we have so many wingers and outside mids. Lucho really isn't at top of the packing order!

Rio said...

List of potential fullbacks, not including the names mentioned, or old people, or people that's not at high standards for their ages.

Jonathan Bottinelli
Paulo Ferrari
Javier Yacuzzi
German Voboril
Sergio Daniel Escudero
Jose Maria Calvo
Juan Eduardo Eluchans
Lucas Mareque
Cristian Villagra
Walter Adrian Zunino
Marcos Adrian Galarza
Javier Marcelo Gandolfi
Pablo Sebastian Alvarez
Miguel Angel Torren
Nicolas Federico Spolli
Marcos Alberto Angelleri
Jonatan Ramón Maidana
Diego Armando Herner
Mariano Esteban Uglessich
Carlos Daniel Soto
Leandro Grimi
Marcelo Hernan Bustamante
Gonzalo Sebastian Garcia
Guillermo Adolfo Esteban
Maximiliano Velazquez

Any more praise for Coco?

Seba said...

Excuse me here Rio, but you are having a laugh. A big laugh.

First of all, regarding ZANETTI, I would like you to read my preview of the list and what I said about him, his age and his current form. You can't say I have ignored the fact of his age.

Out of that list of left-backs you have provided us with, NONE of them are national team calibre. NONE!

The one that's closest to be (and could become an option) is Paulo FERRARI, but the rest???? No offense, but it is simply ridiculous.

ELUCHANS??? MAREQUE???? GRIMI OF ALL PEOPLE?!?!?!?!

There are some interesting prospects there, but they are just that. And none of them should be called up just yet.

About Emiliano INSUA and the U20 World Cup, you also have to consider that our rivals play too. If they attack on the right, it is maybe because they have the players to do so on the right, and not because they have scouted INSUA all that much.

Are all our rivals at fault for letting AGÜERO or Maxi MORALEZ score inside the box? They knew they could do it. Why didn't they stopped them?

If it was all that simple and football was ruled by mathematical laws, then I wouldn't be so interested in football and a perfect tactic would have been designed to keep you from conceeding goals and losing games.

It isn't, so that unpredictability is what make the game so attractive. Even if there are coaches that try to take the fun out of it.

INSUA was not at fault in the Czech goal in the final and if Chile attacked the hole between him and FAZIO, then I'm quite pleased to know that we won that game 3-0. You can hardly criticize him for that game or the entire World Cup campaign in which he played well.

Watching him play for Liverpool a couple of games last season, I was pleased with what I saw and I saw him joining the attack quite often.

He's still young, but he is going places.

But of course you'll keep complaining and I'm fine with it.

I'm just trying to get my facts right.

Seba said...

MORALEZ should not be considered as a similar player to Lucho.

MORALEZ is non-existant when it comes to run the whole field chasing an opposing midfielder and helping out in defense.

Lucho does that. Lucho runs the whole field and he helps in recovering the ball as well as on the distribution of it.

MORALEZ is 100% offensive-minded. In COCO's formation, he could be employed as the enganche (playmaker) but he didn't do quite good when he played for Racing in that position.

The other options are using him as a forward, but the list of better players than him is HUGE at the moment. He will never play instead of MESSI, TEVEZ, SAVIOLA and all the rest...

You don't like Lucho? Fine. But pick your replacements wisely. If you said SOSA, OK, point taken. But MORALEZ to play instead of Lucho?????

Rio said...

lol, do you know football seba?

bottinelli is one of the best young left backs we have. Ferrarri is a speed horse on either flank. Eluchans and voboril are constantly called up for transfers, and angelleri, villagra and alvarez, any of these is miles ahead of your Insua.

please do your homework before making statements that could come from kids that have watched 2 or 3 games.

Rio said...

I didn't arrange the list for a purpose, to see how much you know. lol, look what i found out!

Rio said...

in coco's formation, cambiasso and veron both played too low and weren't able to support riquelme effectively as outside midfielders. The redundancy of the holding midfielder role was kindly pointed out by Jorge Valdano (you do know who that is right), and also mentioned in the interview with Veron lately.

and now you want more DM in the formation?

Moralez is not necessarily at the caliber yet, but he's far better in quality compared to your insua. Let me remind you again, Insua and Paletta turned the only 2 opportunities liverpool gave them last season to shit, they'll have much to make up in england before gaining a starting position.

Why do you think liverpool so desperately wanted Heinze!

Moralez isn't going to Moscow because that's the best he could do. He's going there for the same reason zarate is going to qatar. His family needs the money.
We can lose zarate, but Moralez will be invaluable in the future, and the only way to keep his name on the list is by forming solid connection with him through these NT "practices". That is why I named him.

Lucho did score 12 goals in porto, but 3 of those were from taking PK. and the more important issue is that the bwinliga sucks ass. Look at Simao! That's too stunning a figure to compare to? let's look at lucho's teammate quaresma then. 9 goals in far less matches than lucho, and lot more assists.

Against one of the few good teams in bwinliga, lucho scored an own goal. That game they led 1-0 since 40 minutes and ended up tied because of lucho! That's far greater crime than Ayala did in Copa final. But these issues are obviously all ignorable...

Seba said...

You want to prove that you know football better than me? I'm not interested. You obviously know more than BASILE himself and I think you should sit down with GRONDONA and ask him to hire you as our national team manager then. After all...you've got all the solutions we need at left back and all over the field!

ELUCHANS is nothing else than a mediocre player, ask any Independiente fan. BOTTINELLI is way better than him, he had some spells in our youth national teams, but I don't think he is up to the task and I don't know if he'll ever be. VOBORIL have had a great season for San Lorenzo (last Clausura) and was taken to the Youth World Cup (last minute because of the Gonzalo Sebastián GARCIA non-existant injury) only that he ended up not playing because he was MY INSUA's substitute...VOBORIL only played one game in the entire World Cup and he was used as a midfielder. It was against North Korea and guess who played as left back that day? Yep...you're right, MY INSUA! Why couldn't VOBORIL unsettled MY INSUA? Well...because you are right and TOCALLI is wrong. Obviously!

I mean...you REALLY know your football and you keep mistaking Federico "ENGANCHE POCHO" INSUA with Emiliano "LEFT BACK LIVERPOOL" INSUA????

And then you said Diego "STRIKER, ZARAGOZA" MILITO was the worst defender of Copa America????

I'd take it as an insult to read that you think I don't know football. If it was coming from somebody who REALLY knows...then fine...but I don't accept such a disrespectful remark coming from you. Not when we are talking about the things we are talking.

So now you say 9 goals (3 PK aside)are a bad number for a midfielder like LUCHO? I don't care which league we are talking about, I think that is a pretty good number. LUCHO is not there to provide the goals. It is not his main task. You shouldn't rate his performances based on the number of goals he scores. Ask any Porto fan for their opinion on Lucho. Or ask the River Plate or Huracan fans. I'm sure you will be shocked to hear what they have to say. He is not underachieving by playing in Portugal. He is paid to play there and he delivers with goals, great performances and TITLES. Are those CRIMES in your eyes?
You are mentioning an own goal in a big match. Even the greatest players in history have failed penalty kicks and scored own goals. Why is it so important that Lucho scored an own goal in a big match if Porto won the league in the end? Don't you want your team to win instead of playing beautiful? Aren't you a BILARDO fan? If your answers to these questions are "YES" (which you can't deny they are), then you are really in conflict with yourself.

You compared Lucho to QUARESMA and you should point out that QUARESMA plays a good few meters ahead of Lucho. That's a FACT.

PALETTA and INSUA are adapting to life in the EPL, but then again, you know more than Rafa BENITEZ because they are rubbish and they should be looking for a career in marketing, medicine or something else away from football (according to the truth, the only truth there is in this world: YOUR TRUTH!).

Rio, I want you to treat me with the respect I deserve. I have no problems disagreeing with you in everthing but I won't tolerate you saying I don't know football because all you are doing by posting here is READING WHAT I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT FOOTBALL. You do that almost every day and I never asked you or forced you to do so.

That says a lot and I appreciate your visits and your comments here. I honestly do. Only if they are coming with respect and good intentions.

I'm happy to continue with the argument, if we stop hitting each other at every opportunity there is.

Football, our national team and all those things really trigger passionate arguments, but I think we shouldn't lose the respect that should always be between you and me and any other visitor of this blog.

VAMOS ARGENTINA!

Nico said...

SEBA

all your arguments are opinions rather than fact. I use facts to back up my statements

I was going to go on the attack, but after a little thought, it't not worth it, and you haven't done wrong to deserve it. You've done a good job keeping this place alive, and I respect that.

But in the future, if you wish to attack my points, please put up better facts to support your logic.

"ELUCHANS is nothing else than a mediocre player, ask any Independiente fan"

Caen obviously didn't think that way. They bought Eluchans and used him in all their friendlies and now in regular season. For a team that just earned its promotion in french ligue, resorting to a "mediocre player" all the way from Argentina is obviously illogical. Not to mention all the paperworks they had to prepare because he's foreign.

He's not a young kid like most of the others I've listed. But he's got the necessary defensive quality to play in ligue 1


"BOTTINELLI is way better than him, he had some spells in our youth national teams, but I don't think he is up to the task and I don't know if he'll ever be."
Again pure opinion.
The only important match during clausura that he didn't play was against river, and san lorenzo got the championship. Why can't you just admit that you had forgotten this man? Give facts to back up your opinion that he is NOT up to the task and never will be please

"VOBORIL have had a great season for San Lorenzo (last Clausura) and was taken to the Youth World Cup (last minute because of the Gonzalo Sebastián GARCIA non-existant injury) only that he ended up not playing because he was MY INSUA's substitute..."

Great season? are you aware the fact he only completed 3 matches last semester? And if you are talking about the entire year, he's had 6 whole matches. LMFAO, GREAT SEASON INDEED
He had less than 1000 minutes of playing time the whole year combined

He wasn't starting in U-20 for the same reason. You simply don't use a player that hasn't played much for entire year in international tournaments.

Go on with your Insua praises, but keep in mind your argument against other players had just turned to complete shit


"You compared Lucho to QUARESMA and you should point out that QUARESMA plays a good few meters ahead of Lucho. That's a FACT."

I hope you aren't trying to tell me that Lucho is a better player than Quaresma.
C.Ronaldo also played behind Rooney, who scored more?
Childish arguments


"PALETTA and INSUA are adapting to life in the EPL, but then again, you know more than Rafa BENITEZ because they are rubbish and they should be looking for a career in marketing, medicine or something else away from football (according to the truth, the only truth there is in this world: YOUR TRUTH!)."

what's the whole point of this paragraph? Does the whole non sense personal attack make Insua and Paletta look better? Are those dissing going to get them more playing time in liverpool?

Wait a minute, when have I said anything about Rafa?


"Rio, I want you to treat me with the respect I deserve. I have no problems disagreeing with you in everthing but I won't tolerate you saying I don't know football because all you are doing by posting here is READING WHAT I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT FOOTBALL. You do that almost every day and I never asked you or forced you to do so."
I treated you with respect, and this is the crap you throw at me?

Look, I don't mind a good argument, even if I'm proven wrong. I'm often proven wrong manner of fact, because some my ideas are not what you would call orthodox.

But you gotta throw better arguments than these. I respect those who take their time, do their homework and then put up legitimate counter points

Seba said...

I don't need to do any homework for you. I don't need facts either. This is an opinion-based blog. There are plenty of websites for you to get facts, figures and all those stuff.

The fact that we are discussing a list comprised of a majority of players not elegible for this friendly is really beyond me.

We can go on and on and on and we'll never see things the same way.

I'm not saying Lucho is better than QUARESMA. They simply play different positions. It's like comparing VAN DER SAR to Ryan GIGGS or similar.

OK, I was wrong with VOBORIL and his playing time for San Lorenzo, aren't you wrong in having him as a candidate to cover our left back position then? After all, he only played 3 matches and was a back up in the U20!

Good luck to ELUCHANS and Caen in the French league. If he is one of their top defenders, they are really going to need all the luck they can get! I'll keep an eye on their fortunes!

Rio said...

How hard is it to realized they didn't play Voboril because they had the better choice, Bottinelli?

Does not take a genius to understand.

There were alot to risk towards the midpoint of Clausura for san lorenzo, as the season was already going well, yet Ramon Diaz still played Voboril in 8 games all the way to the end.

Not enough playing time is not enough, regardless the cause. I'm not saying Voboril is ahead of the others on the list, but he'll have his chances. Bottinelli won't stay in san lorenzo forever.

"I'm not saying Lucho is better than QUARESMA. They simply play different positions. It's like comparing VAN DER SAR to Ryan GIGGS or similar."

this is laughable.
explain the difference between midfield wingers and forward wingers in 4-3-3?
Comparing to goalie, LOL
Is that the best you can come up with seba? disappointing.


You don't even know how Eluchans plays, but for whatever reason you kept on dissing him. Well, if that's how you want to treat these topics, or how you want to treat the game in general, there's No point in discussing these matters with you. Why you make football blog anyway?

"I don't need to do any homework for you. I don't need facts either. This is an opinion-based blog. There are plenty of websites for you to get facts, figures and all those stuff."

plagiarizing opinions from newspaper and online sources can only go so far.

Seba said...

You know what? I'm tired of you. And since you are already doing it, I'll take the liberty to say whatever is on my mine.

In the future, I'll start ignoring you, knowing that you are such an arrogant person who thinks only what you say is true and undisputable.

How can you say Lucho and QUARESMA should be compared when they are both starters in Porto, hence they don't play the same position or role. In my opinion, it is just as comparing a goalie with a midfielder. Why is it different? If the man is a key part of the two-time Portugal champion, a regular feature of Argentina and went to the World Cup, he is obviously, at least a VERY GOOD PLAYER. So get over it. You wanted facts, those are facts, man!

Why do you think I don't know how ELUCHANS plays? Where do you think I lived for most of ELUCHANS playing career? Why don't you ask me if I ever saw him play in the stadium at a derby match against my Racing Club? Or live on television many times? Or if I have friends who support Independiente and never liked him?And why ELUCHANS was never called up to join our national team? You are making him look like if he was Roberto CARLOS in his best days.
He is 27 for God's sake (same age as Cata DIAZ and you were complaining about him being called up) and he made his debut in 2000. He's got more than 100 matches for Independiente and since he made it to their first team, Marcelo BIELSA, José PEKERMAN and now Alfio BASILE never called him to be with the Albicelestes. Of course, those three men no nothing about football compared to you. Why he went to Caen, a very important football club with plenty of titles, tradition and glory (I'm not plagiarizing this bit of sarcasm! It came from my own pathetic mind, you know!). He should have gone to Man Utd, FC Barcelona, Juventus or a club like that. Or is it that they don't who ELUCHANS is? Now seriously, I can't believe I have to justify to you that I don't think ELUCHANS has what it takes to represent Argentina at an international level. Admit it, you made a list of all the argie left backs you could find (very easy with internet these days) and you throw it trying to impress everybody. Now how impressive it is that you have a candidate like ELUCHANS for our national team. It really says a lot about YOUR football knowledge, Mr. I DON'T KNOW WHICH MILITO PLAYS IN DEFENSE.

Regarding VOBORIL, yesterday you said: "are you aware the fact he only completed 3 matches last semester? And if you are talking about the entire year, he's had 6 whole matches"

Today you say: "There were alot to risk towards the midpoint of Clausura for san lorenzo, as the season was already going well, yet Ramon Diaz still played Voboril in 8 games all the way to the end."

So you are lying. All of a sudden, from playing 3 matches the last semester he went up to almost half of the championship campaign for San Lorenzo. A good number of matches for a rookie I would say.

And now is Mr. Facts (AKA RIO) who should back his sayings with good evidence.

You are accussing me of plagiarizing opinions from newspapers and THAT IS A BIG OFFENSE, RIO or NICO or whoever you are. I do get a lot of information from newspapers and internet sources. Where do you get yours? I'm not earning any money by doing this blog and I don't have the resources to do a coverage on my own. But so far, I think this blog is serving his purpose very well (beyond my expectations I would say). I'm trying to provide (when time allows me) a site where Argentina fans can get all that information they can't read in Spanish. But I never plagiarized and I expect you have the decency of apologizing to me. Or at least, Mr. Facts, prove to me where did I plagiarize. In that case, I will apologize to you and to all my readers.

In the meantime, go back to your tactics and to your very popular blog and stop reading what this ignorant journalist you love to attack has to say.

Seba said...

News about Juan Pablo SORIN (plagiarized from Olé):

Hamburg manager, Huub STEVENS (well...in Ole it said STEVENES, it was a mistake I don't want to plagiarize so it is correct here in my blog), said: "He is not an important player for our team".

What happen was that SORIN got injured (that's not the reason why he wasn't called up by COCO. COCO doesn't like him that much), and our WC2006 captain, decided to go to Barcelona and go through a treatment with one of FC Barcelona's doctors.

Now STEVENS said: "We want to keep the cool in our squad and we want our doctors to concentrate in our important players. As of Today, SORIN is not important".

SORIN will have to wait at least a couple of months before he is fit again and then he'll probably have to wait a lot more if he wants to play for Hamburg again!

Rio said...

lol, more plagiarizing.

proper sourcing SO HARD.

and sorin's knee problem and the german's reaction to that is no news. it happened back in july.

Seba said...

From this same series of comments (anyone can see it):

Rio said...
in Europe, Sorin and Clemente are left wing backs. If Zanetti still needs testing, then why not Sorin?


But of course, this knee problem (as you confirmed in your last comment), is not news and happened in July so it makes perfect sense you wanted to see an injured player in our list for this friendly.

Soy_de_River said...

Rio-

Enough. Take your anger and obsenities elsewhere. Its not wanted here. If you can discuss things like a civilized person, then stay, otherwise dont let the door hit you on the way out.

I value your opinions and insights but the personal attacks and swearing don't belong here.

Seba-

Hang in there bro. We are behind you and thank you for setting up this blog.

Seba said...

Thank you, Soy_de_River, you know I didn't want things to go this far and I don't enjoy this kind of verbal abuse.

But I don't want to fight with Rio, I think his contributions (when he is not over the line, like he was in the last few comments), are really great for our blog.

I would also like to apologize to all of those who read the blog everyday and don't want to see this kind of arguments in our space.

Again, Soy_de_River, thanks for your words and your contributions.

Rio said...

I really have no problem against Sorin's exclusion. I believed that he should of been given a last chance in the Copa, but it's too late now.

Rio said...

And I'd like to apologize for where I've went out of the line. But just a reminder, I don't like to be discredited without logical counter points to my opinions. The strategy Seba used was not honorable from my point of view, and for that reason, like I've said before, I see no reason to continue the argument.

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