ABBONDANZIERI: Didn't have much to do and I can't remember a single save he made. I do remember him catching butterflies before he started our fourth goal play. 7/10 for being a great passer!
ZANETTI: I'm not tired of saying it: If only he would have gone to the World Cup... What an exciting player to watch. He does everything right. All the basics and fundamentals. Impressive runs going forward, great cross for CARLITOS when he hit the bar. All around sound performance by EL TRACTOR PUPI. One of our best players in this Copa America. 8/10
AYALA: Looked nervy. Unnecesary sliding tackle on GUERRERO costed him a yellow card. Could have been red-carded a few moments after that. Otherwise, he showed good command of that back four. 6/10
Gabriel MILITO: Back from a one-match suspension and showed no signs of improvement. Again, our defense wasn't really tested and he is the kind of player who shines when the team is under pressure. Today was not the case. Very bad passing from him aswell. 5/10
Gabriel HEINZE: After I confessed through the comments' box that I don't like him, I have to rate him severely. He is my weakest performer from Tonights game. That step-on-the-ball-and-create-a-great-but-unexpected-chance-for-Peru thing was ridiculous. Read all of what I said about ZANETTI and then change it to the opposite to understand what I think about Man Utd's left back. To top it all, he tried to chest a ball down and it went out for a throw in. 3/10
Javier MASCHERANO: MASCHERADONA the goal machine! The foot of God! The 8th New Wonder of the World! The 5th Beatle! The Perfect Father (dedicating his goal to his child)! He gave us a scare when his knee seemed to have been injured. But a warrior like him doesn't leave until the job is done. I had a dream...I dreamt about a team of 11 MASCHERANOS. Then I realize...we only need one! 8/10
VERON: As many of our posters...he was ANONYMOUS tonight. Very slow. Showed good intentions but that was not enough. One moment he was on the left, almost crashing with CAMBIASSO. The next minute he is on the right and it looked like he closed the space for ZANETTI and MESSI to run at defenders. A poor showing by SEBA (no, not me!). We saw almost the same thing from Lucho when he played in that position. Are they victims of COCO's formation? 4/10
CAMBIASSO: I would think that his importance will show up when we face a better team. So far, he didn't have to work that much in recovering the ball. He was marked and he is supposed to be the one marking (more than creating). 6/10
RIQUELME: Man of the match. After finding it hard to crack open the Peruvian resistance in the first half, he showed Argentina the way the goal. He scored with his left then found MESSI inside the box and then added another goal to his personal account. Two lovely strikes one unforgettable assist and 9/10.
MESSI: Showed he is from a different galaxy in the first half but was denied by the post. Linked up well with TEVEZ, scored his first goal in Copa America and he did all of that without showing a great deal of effort. Naturally. 8/10.
Diego MILITO: Not up to the task of replacing CRESPO, yet. Didn't have any clear chance though, but didn't create them either. A poor showing even if I still have faith in him. 5/10
TEVEZ: If Alex FERGUSON was watching (oh...I doubt it very very much!), then he would have been very happy to see the effect CARLITOS had on Argentina. Participated in three goals (just like RIQUELME, only that ROMAN scored twice). Revitalized our attack, looked always dangerous and was unlucky not to score with that header that hit the bar. Sure made a bid to start against Mexico. 8/10
GAGO: Didn't play much. The game was pretty much in the bag when he came in. Helped the team in midfield by replacing a tired VERON. 6/10
AIMAR: Didn't have the chance to do much. Played only a few minutes. No rating for him.
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Here is my rating,
PATO - For the pass, 7.5
ZANETTI - Never seen him running out of gas, 8
AYALA - Pretty much gave me some scary moment, 6
G.MILITO - OK but not necessarily good, 5.5
HEINZE - I won't be too harsh but I was terrified, 4.5
MASCHERANO - Well what can I say, 8
VERON - Silence is a virtue, 4
CAMBIASSO - I still have my critics about him on the left, 5.5
RIQUELME - I'm not going to say anything, 9.5
MESSI - Can't be wrong at all, 9
D.MILITO - Can't blame him, needs more time, 5.5
TEVEZ - Has my vote to start against Mexico, 9
GAGO - Better than VERON, 6
Crazy Johnny's Player Ratings:
PATO 7. Looked sturdy tonight, though not severely tested. Not many corners to defend. His butterfly chasing incident led directly to the fourth goal.
ZANETTI 8.5. Steady defense, very few mistakes and chugging upfield to create problems for the Peru defense. He made Veron look like a toll collector.
AYALA 7. Continued leadersip by El Rato. Too bad about the yellow. That might hurt his aggressiveness against Mexico.
G. MILITO 6. Better tonight but still the weak link in the defense. Looks tentative. Might need a throwdown with somebody to get fired up.
HEINZE 6.5. Yes, he is a loose cannon at times. Still, a very tough marker and throws himself at the match. Despite some mistakes, made some nice plays (I remember the one header out of trouble).
MASCHERANO 10. Defensive surgeon. Scoring machine. Even sucks his thumb well.
VERON 4.5. Not a factor.Looks like he is satisfied moseying around midfield and playing "catch" with Roman. I don't remember one time he hit the dirt playing defense, though I might have missed one.
CAMBIASS0 7. Decent all around game. Provided some threats on offense in the first half, though to no avail. Dependable defending. More involved.
RIQUELME 9.5. El Maestro. El Jefe. Best performance yet. He has been in this groove now for nearly two months. Try and imagine our team in this tournament without him. Please.
MESSI 8. Remains a big thorn in the side of the opponent. Never say die attitude. BIG motor. Still overdribbles, and was getting frustrated. Let's hope that goal settles him in.
D. MILITO 5.5. Not a factor despite playing hard. Looks like a Budweiser beer horse compared to everyone else. I think he is capable, but not happening yet. May have seen his last start.
TEVEZ 7.5. Did everything but score. Lightening in a bottle. I think, after Roman, the key to our winning the whole thing.
GAGO 7. I like Gago's play. Accurate, has pace, marks well and doesn't look to do more than is expected of him. Well schooled in his role by Coco at Boca.
AIMAR. Not enough time on the pitch to grade.
COCO 10. Continues to make all the right moves. Needs a makeover by the Queer Eye guys.
Nice one, Johnny - does Coca ever change shirts? :)
On a serious note, I think you've hit on something, Seba, in your rating of Veron. His side of midfield is often crowded by Zanetti's runs forward and Messi's tracking back - maybe that's why he looks so anonymous.
Milito 5
He couldn't do the only thing he was asked to do. I don't see how any better score would be possible.
Messi 8.5
Messi never stops creating. Watching Messi play is pure joy. Now he's gotten more flexible in positioning, He's almost Perfecto!
Tevez 8
Instantly changed the dynamics of the game AGAIN after substituted in. And at such critical time set Roman up for the goal. His great effort at producing runs and his unselfish sacrifices surely made all his fans proud. Little lower score than Messi because Messi ran more today. Hopefully we can see Carlito starting ahead of Milito soon.
Riquelme 9
Roman didn't just attack. He was organizing, backtracking, stripping and tackling... Roman is the true leader of this team, and no score below 9 can describe the magnificence of his presence.
Cambiasso 8
Cuchu ran alot in the first half, and created several good chances that we weren't able to capitalize on(and I blame Diego Milito for that). On defense he successfully accomplished his task of supporting Mascherano. Cambiasso plays a high octane role. He needs rest, because his defensive contribution will be necessary in the final.
Aimar ~
Aimar was put on to rest Cambiasso at 84th minute.
Mascherano 8
Wow did Mascher give me a heart attack when he was holding his ankle! Point deduction for scaring his beloved fans! But even after that point deduction he gets an 8, so guess what I was ready to give him...
Gago 6
I understand his job was to establish defensive screen when Mascher pushed up. But hey man, when we had 3-0 lead you still stayed at home, wtf was Gago thinking?! I should of given him a 5 for no effort. But then he did a little running on the left, so let's settle with a sixer.
Veron 5
I was going to give him a 4. Then I reconsidered due to his defensive efforts... Veron is such shit! Get his face out of my sight PLEASE. We don't need him in 4-2-3-1. and if we're confident enough to play 4-3-1-2, why the hell do we need that extra defensive effort from an outside midfielder? Especially when we already have Cambiasso. Use either Messi or Aimar to partner up Cambiasso, come on Basile, you can dew eet!
Heinze 7
Heinze was AGAIN caught out of position. Especially at the beginning. This is not England, we can't afford to spent 40 minutes warming up. There's no choice but to play Heinze, and Heinze isn't 100% satisfying. However, must give credits where they're due. Heinze is an excellent defender inside the box. He's starting LB for a reason. I know exactly what he was doing. He was thinking how pretty his new beard looked. Get a hold of yourself dude! The Copa man, just 2 games away.
Milito 5.5
Gabriel Milito was doing in the back exactly what his brother was doing in the front - fucking up. I hope he realizes that there's Burdisso waiting for him to screw up. And Diaz isn't far behind either.
Ayala 6.5
For the captain of a match that we won 4-0, this 6.5 score isn't good at all. After we switched to 4-2-3-1 the pressure on defense was largely relieved. On top of that, Peru had virtually given up after our second goal. Defense was not sufficiently tested in this match, and seriously need to prove themselves worthy of our trust in the upcoming semi final games.
Zanetti 8.5
Of the defenders, Zanetti was most impressive today. The old tractor never dies! He was running, dribbling, passing, crossing. Go Zanetti gogo! I repeat, Pekerman's greatest mistake was not bringing Zanetti to World Cup.
Pato 8.5
Clean sheet gets Pato 8. +0.5 for the beautiful tackle that initiated the attack which resulted in what Ray Hudson called "Scientific Goal".
Congrat to our victory .When does the U20 match.I really want them to do as their senior
Tonymed
OH MY GOD, OH MY GOD!!!!!!!1
I CAN NOT BELIEVE YOU RATED CAMBIASSO, the "NO ONE GOOD PASS DURING THE WHOLE GAME" better than Veron,
I mean I don't love Veron, but look at the relief he gives Roman and Masche, and the rest of the group when they are going nowhere. watch the game again my friend and look where the passes are going THE WHOLE TIME when they are not given to Roman, or Masche in midfiled and then rate him,
man, at least he passes right !!
I see this time, you over-did it with the objective and opinionated feelings of the players!
All due respect,
Abu.
I guess its RIO's opinion after all and all are entitled to opinions. Bu i have to agree with Abu on this one. Anyway, i guess VERON has received more than enough stick from you guys, i do admit he is anonymous at times but he does't deserve this much of shit man..common!!
Rgds,
Alwin
what did veron accomplished?
cambiasso made 2 passes that almost resulted in goal if not for milito's slow speed.
veron is there to provide long lobs and long shots. he did neither. cambiasso is a high octane runner to cover grounds on foot, that's what he did.
in term of performance, the 2 aren't even close!
you and your friend obviously didn't realize why messi made his run all the way to the left. making vertical pass to tevez who was also on the left.
that's the route cambiasso provides. and as long as cambiasso is doing it, there's no need for messi to cover that much ground to do it. running our forward left and right across the field isn't free!
Rio the thing is, VERON plight is abit different. People are all targeting him and he is closely watched and any mistake that he does is blown out of porpotions. Not many agreed with his inclusion in the squad in the first place and that is why he will be used as a scapegoat of anything goes wrong, i can see that coming and he is subject to most of the blame and finger pointing.
Well all in all its your thoughts. Im just happy that we won and progressed through as a team mate. Peace be with you.
Cheers,
Alwin
Can we like ....... clone Zanetti? What a player. He was much better than Heinze when he took over the left flank the other day. El Gringo had me swearing on that sloppy move.
El Pato deserved the 7+ for that super pass alone. Did have much to do with the game for he was practically unchallenged by the Peru team. But when he decided to get into the action.....man!!! what a pass.
Riquelme, what a tournament he is having. He and Tevez can read each other's minds, no?
Per Veron-I personally am not interested in scapegoating any player. I am new enough to Argentine football so that everybody has a clean slate with me(which includes Veron and Riquelme). He just seems out of the loop. Maybe Seba is right about him being lost in Coco's plan. I don't know. Let's hope he has a chance to show what he is all about. I would like nothing better than to see him drive a stake in Mexico's vampire heart. Get 'em Veron !
can someone please place the link for the goals, it was 4AM out time and I couldn't manage to watch the game :(
I want to see messi's goal
please the link for goals someone
my bad, i got them in the last post, wooooooooooooooow what goals and neat plays and passes, I was so tiered I didnt get the chance to see the atomic flea score :(
this is the first match I miss in the copa for Argentina
I hope we can meet in the final with Brazil for PAY BACK
Does Zanetti have any sons? If so the I cannot wait for them to grow up with hopefully some of their Dad's talent. Actually, if he has daugthers maybe they could go for the womens team. Almost flawless. I say almost because Ayala was actually carded because he had to scramble cover Zanetti's position since Pupi was so far up (almost seemed like another foward!). Still the guy had an awesome game and is still light years more talented than Scaloni.
So I am one of the Veron critics but I'm not going to criticize his personal performance but rather agree with Seba in that I don't think he fits into the formation. That and I don't think that the Riquelme-Veron partnership works, or at least I don't think they work as well together as Riquelme works with Tevez, Messi and Aimar. I would personally replace Veron with Aimar (keeping Messi and Tevez as fowards) though I would wonder if Aimar might suffer the same fate as Veron.
Rio probably knows much more about this being the tactician on the blog.
Johnny, I love your ratings. I snorted water up my nose from giggling too much. Keep it up!
-argentinafan
Argentinafan-Hey ! Thanks for the encouragement ! Maybe I can get a job as the Bob Uecker of football ! And continued thanks for Seba's wonderful blog.
Messi was so good that girls would kill themselves over him.
Seriously, look
http://venezuela07.wordpress.com/2007/07/09/girls-obessed-with-leo-messi/
oops, bad link. here it is
http://venezuela07.wordpress.com/2007/07/09/girls-obessed-with-leo-messi/
Man I am@ work and a lot of the Mexicans are saying Mexico will win 2-1 or win in a PK shoot out. They are going on and on how Mexico crushed Paraguay and etc and how Argentina is going to lose. This and other reasons why I dislike Mexicans so much, they have never won anything and they run their mouths!
,Jack!
I think Heinze improved as the game progressed.
Ouch! Give Diego Milito some credits! :) At least he gave something about Peru's defense for Basile to study for 45 minutes...
ya asil. Heinze just warmed up slow. well, he plays in england. that place for 1/2 the season it's cold and bitter rain. so he probably got used to the northern european slow warming up habit.
Alwin. If veron isn't on the team to provide his long lobs and distance strikes, he should play relatively similar to cambiasso.
But instead we see veron always at a much higher position and not able to get the ball through with messi and zanetti. (make sure u watch their number, the 2 can look confusing. but 19 and 20)
and on defense the right waist is usually empty. On the left you see cambiasso always around mascherano when the ball gets there.
IMO veron isn't a bad player, he just doesn't do it right. he's a player need constant lateral support because his poor dribbling skill and slow speed. and in 4-3-1-2 that lateral support is not guaranteed, because himself is a supporter not the main driving wheel.
just one thing.. everyone is talking about how Zanetti would have done for us at the WC. but then he would have replaced Sorin, who himself had a great WC. I just don't know how in Pekerman's system which is left titled, Zanetti could have outplayed Sorin. I don't think Zanetti's play could have been so much better than Sorin.
I do think the main reason we lost was subbing Roman and losing our enganche (and our entire stucture and ball control offence) and with Pato's injury, not being able to bring up Messi. That not only cost us in XT, but also in the PK where Messi is as close to automatic as there is in our team.
plus, with all the aforementioned friction between him and Ayala, I can see why Pekerman was steadfast in wanting to keep Zanetti and Veron out.
NO
having 2 wing backs doesn't mean both have to push.
the fact is, roman leans left ALL THE TIME, so right wing pushing for width would laterally balance that issue as well.
SO as long as the left FB is reliable enough on defense, him able to push would add some elements of surprise to the game at the same time provide extra width on the left of roman...
Heinze is really not a wing back. I watched most of his EPL games, he never goes pass half line.
Rio my man ! You and I are watching different ManU matches. I see him pushing past the half line often !
John, Johnny, Rio, thanks for your ratings.
I can't find Ole's ratings in their website. Have no time to look for them any longer. But we don't care about them! haha!
Now Abu and Alwin, don't take my ratings on VERON as something personal. He is not competing with CAMBIASSO here. Not even for a place in the starting eleven.
You see...the way I see it, ratings are very very very subjectives and should be consider like that.
Subjective in a way that those expressed above are my opinions. The way I saw the game and each individual in our team.
But they are also subjective in a way that the rating is given not by a standard set for any player. They are set by the player's own standard (which in the case of our Albicelestes, every player have build in the past few years).
Example: I wouldn't give MARADONA 8/10 if he only passed the ball around to a team-mate, without gravitating in the outcome of the game.
And I wouldn't give HEINZE a 3/10 because he didn't score or he didn't dribbled.
You see my point?
You have to consider all those things before you give a note to one or another player.
Knowing what are VERON's skills and having seen him playing incredibly well for Argentina, I can't give him a high rating after watching him last night.
Johnny,
from what i saw. some times heinze played LCB for manU, in those cases he obviously doesn't push.
My opinion on his LCB performance can be summarized to one sentence: Heinze doesn't cope well with Evra.
now when he played LB (which he actually did less this season), there's always Richardson or cry.ronaldo to bring the ball up from him (manU plays winger swaps so someone always on the left). In those cases he doesn't need to go pass the half line. he could just ditch the ball to the forwards, which is what I saw him did all season long.
He might of transported the ball up pass midfield on rare occasions. The fact C.Ron and Richardson backtrack very often means heinze wouldn't need to do that alot...
I am thinking we should move Heinze to the middle as one of the centre backs with Ayala and get rid of Milito. Maybe we can have Ibarra on the right and Zanetti on the left then, as we did against Paraguay.
Mexico is going to be a very tough side to beat but I am confident. That boy Nery Castillo is fast and will be very tough for our centre backs to deal with.
Messi will be taking on his club mate Marquez and it will be intereting.
I think Tevez and Messi will start as our strikers as we need their pace and mobility to upset the Mexican defenders.
I will play Gago instead of Veron in midfield with Mascherano. Cambiasso and Riquelme (of course) will remain. I think Cambiasso won lots of balls in the opponents' half in the Peru game.
For some reason I think it would of been better to play Mexico in that last round instead of playing Peru. The way I see it is, that when or if Argentina got past a Mexican side they would play the winner of Peru/Paraguay and would of been a lot more fit to play in the final. I do not know why I get so nervous playing the Mexicans it might be that I live in Southern California and seen a Mexican ohhh every 3 seconds of my life, and they go on and on. It might be going to my head with them saying Mexico will win 2-1 and etc, and how Mexico beat Arg in the last COPA America, and the last few times the two sides have played it has gone down to the wire or PK's. If Argentina does not beat Mexico this is a major disaster for us, this would be just as bad as losing in the WC I kid you not that is how I would feel, and that took me a long time to get over. No reason should a full Argentina lose aganist MEXICO, none,ziltch,nada. I do not care how good Mexico has played in Copa America, we are Argentine and we are far greater then they will ever dream off. I wan't to see Argentina to toy with Mexico and show them why they will never hold up a WC trophy. VAMOS ARGENTINA!!!
,Jack!
Seba,
As long as Argentina wins im happy and that is what that matters the most to me. Just that i feel at times people tend to be extra critcal and bluntly rude at times on VERON from which i think he deserves abit more respect than he actually gets these days.
Regards,
Alwin
bah
to conserve tevez's energy we have to use a target person. Utilizing his physical nature in order to force opponent defenders to run and fatigue.
So in that sense an outside midfielder is needed on the right. Messi can't do it because he'll have to be the other forward during early stage.
That's where veron comes in. And he came in ONLY BECAUSE MAXI MIGHT BE NOT 100%.
Don't forget that veron supporters. Don't forget!!! We have MAXI! maxi will be fit sooner or later...
Rio,
Yes RIO, i know we have MAXI ans i hope he returns soon. Just that VERON is played out of position,i feel.
Rgds,
Alwin
I just noticed that Carlitos shares the same birthday as future teammate Cristiano Ronaldo. Both were born on 5 February with Carlitos one year older.
allan,
Thanks for the info.
Im sure the THEATHRE OF DREAMS will be dazzled with CARLITOS magic soon. I can see him and C.RONALDO swapping positions in a flexible 4-3-3.
Regards,
Alwin
manU play 4-3-3?
get real!
and it's EPL. no EPL team plays 4-3-3, it would be suicidal.
Rio..we will just have to wait and see then. No comments.
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